Eyes in the back of my head!

[OB..]

North Pole: if you didn't see what happened, make your best guess
South Pole: only make a decision when you have clearly seen exactly what happened. Never draw any inferences.

Equator: cautiously use your best judgement before blowing

 

[crossref]

Play on. Clarify, at the next stoppage, that you did not see it. Apologise for being "unsighted" if you want.

On the other hand:

Player on floor with blood coming from a bloodied mouth. Oppo player stood next to him with fist covered in blood. Ping him. That is clear and obvious for me.

You should have been in position to see the KO and the punch. You should not have got your positioning wrong ( but it happens). The first may or may not have happened. The second clearly did.

so sometimes it is appropriate to blow for something you didn't quite see, and sometimes it isn't.

I agree with that pragmatic approach, even if not with your action on the particular scenarios.

 

[Pegleg]

If the evidence is there yes it is ok to act on it. If the evidence in not then obviously no. Thats why you never say never.

To claim a player that makes a tackle could not have run "that" quickly so must have been offside opens you up to be proved a fool.

A player who receives an ankle height pass may well try to trap the ball football stye. You seeing the ball roll in front of him and pinging him would lead you to look a complete prat.

However,

If a player is injured and another player is implicated, by clear visable evidence (blood on his hands, knuckles may be tooth implanted in his fist etc), as the offender then I'd take my chance on the balance of probabilities.

 

[Stormkahn]

Blimey, leave you guys unsupervised for a while and it's a 3 page thread....

Thanks for the good advice Dixie, much appreciated. Point well taken about fitness but being 6'5" on < 1/2 a pitch with U11s it's not been a factor getting somewhere it's just knowing where that somewhere should be!

Thus far I call what I see, if I'm unsighted I say so and give benefit of the doubt, play on, for the U11s this has been fine. I'm more than happy with my call which prompted the question, whilst unseen it was an open and shut case.

Now at my age group we don't tend to have an AR, in all of your example scenarios would you not have called on the AR to consult before ruling, after all you have 2 more pairs of eyes?

If there had been fisty cuffs in a U11 match (fat chance) I'd be calling on the coaches for a chat...

 

[Pegleg]

If there had been fisty cuffs in a U11 match (fat chance) I'd be calling on the coaches for a chat...

Don't believe it. They can happen at any age. Usually handbags (serious at that age!).

With age group stuff and Knock ons it may be worth looking at the coaches. If Jonny has knocked on the look on his coaches face my tell the tale. Use the coaches as a sort of "AR" Again do so with great care. Take into account the game tone etc.

Remember that whatever you call is done to you. You justify your action. You can't blame the coach. I remember seeing video clip of a senior ref (I'll not mention his name) who after giving a PK reacted to the players "dissention " with the comment (whilst looking like he was about to cry) "He (the AR) said it!" It would have been sad had it not been so funny. It was briceless.

In the puch scenario I describe above. If I sent off a player in that situation. I would have to be able to say honestly why I arrived at my call. No claiming to have seen that which I did not.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

"with your inner most leg up the breakdown forward " ????????????

Not just me then?

 

[crossref]

Now at my age group we don't tend to have an AR, in all of your example scenarios would you not have called on the AR to consult before ruling, after all you have 2 more pairs of eyes

technically I suspect you never have ARs -- as the two dads who act as TJs for you aren't ARs.

we have had some discussion before on this page as to how a person gets the special powers that come with being an official AR , rather than merely a TJ.

It's a bit blurry.
- it would be possible for a club as match organiser to appoint a team of team of three to a youth game, composed of three people determined to be suitable for the task (ie likely three people who are normally club-refs).

- but as a U11 club ref on a Sunday morning you can't simply decide, on the fly, to turn your two volunteer TJs into official ARs, with AR powers.

- BUT on the other hand if you personally, Dave, are a club official, perhaps even the Ref Co, and U11 team manager who organised the match, and you have on the sideline two people you know are sutiable then you probably CAN appoint them then and there as ARs (I would say)

[LAWS]Definitions
Every match is under the control of Match Officials who consist of the referee and two touch judges or assistant referees. Additional persons, as authorised by the match organisers may include the reserve referee and/or reserve assistant referee, an official to assist the referee in making decisions by using technological devices, the time keeper, the match doctor, the team doctors, the non-playing members of the teams and the ball persons.

A touch judge may be appointed by a match organiser or a team involved in a match and is responsible for signalling, touch, touch in-goal and the success or otherwise of kicks at goal.

An assistant referee may be appointed by a match organiser and is responsible for signalling, touch, touch in-goal, the success or otherwise of kicks at goal and indicating foul play. An assistant referee will also provide assistance to the referee in the performance of any of the referee’s duties as directed by the referee[/LAWS].

 

[menace]

Can you point me in the direction of resources on positioning?

Storky....you may find this helpful. http://www.actrra.org.au/uploads/1/0/4/1/10411123/rugbyrefinpractice_426.pdf

 

[Stormkahn]

Storky....you may find this helpful. http://www.actrra.org.au/uploads/1/0/4/1/10411123/rugbyrefinpractice_426.pdf

spot on, exactly the sort of thing I was looking for! cheers.

 

[Browner]

. it would be thrown out straight away, could you describe what you saw please?

aaahhh I didnt see anything but I decided to send him off anyway.

shortest hearing ever !

No, shelfy,

Cos after the incident I ask " ok player, what he do to deserve that response?, and tell me why that shouldnt be a red card?"

" he was effin doing this to me ......." .....ker-ching!!

My detailed report then states what I saw, and also states the players inadvertant confession :clap:. Anyway he attends, I don't, his time wasted and his costs not mine!

 

[SimonSmith]

RFU Regulation 19: "The standard of proof in all disciplinary cases (including before Appeal Panels) is the balance of probabilities."