France v Scotland

didds

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First hit on google for "penalty try award youtube"

assuming NO fits the bill as a "quality ref" whatever that really means.

Straight under the posts blowing the whistle as the ball is still live at that time. No waiting for 40 phases to see if Ireland might score elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc9t_H6B8aY&t=260s
 

dave_clark


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After 45 years or so involvement in RU as a player, coach, very occassional (and crap!) ref, blazer and supporter across grass roots to elite, Ive never ever been aware of any unwritten rules/laws/understandfings/interpretations that a grounded try takes precendence over a PT award.

My entire understandign is that if/when the ref sees a PT scenario (s)he just blows immediately.

Clealrly others mileage differs.

on one of the ELRA courses i hosted (and "helped" deliver, back when i was trying to make my club a local centre of excellence for refereeing), the chap running the course said to allow the try in this scenario rather than give a penalty try.

but then he was the same chap who on another course said that if you don't know who committed foul play worthy of a red card you can send off the captain instead...
 

Dickie E


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Here's another. ball in care's hands, as he starts to play to the left. PT straight under the posts. No waiting to see if Quinns will take 40 phases to score elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-KYg6w8Wio&t=265s

Significantly both examples are from scrums that have failed illegally which is not the point of discussion. I'm looking for an example where a referee has determined that a try has been scored in a less advantageous position due to foul play
 

SimonSmith


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After 45 years or so involvement in RU as a player, coach, very occassional (and crap!) ref, blazer and supporter across grass roots to elite, Ive never ever been aware of any unwritten rules/laws/understandfings/interpretations that a grounded try takes precendence over a PT award.

My entire understandign is that if/when the ref sees a PT scenario (s)he just blows immediately.

Clealrly others mileage differs.
Kinda yeah, kinda naw.

I was coaching a supposedly high potential referee once in a relatively high level friendly-but-not-very.
A decent-ish kinda game, until the last 5 minutes where she just went missing on a bunch of decisions - offside, fringing - near the goal line. Tight 2 points game, and very kickable penalties.

In the debrief I asked her what had gone on, and her reply was that the guidance she and her peers had been receiving was, as alluded to above, to let the players decide the game.

It's fair to say that the conversation after that was...interesting as she couldn't understand how NOT giving a penalty is just as big a game deciding decision as awarding one.

That code is out there.
 

didds

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on one of the ELRA courses i hosted (and "helped" deliver, back when i was trying to make my club a local centre of excellence for refereeing), the chap running the course said to allow the try in this scenario rather than give a penalty try.

but then he was the same chap who on another course said that if you don't know who committed foul play worthy of a red card you can send off the captain instead...

quite. I think that says everything you need to know about his advice.
 

didds

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Significantly both examples are from scrums that have failed illegally which is not the point of discussion. I'm looking for an example where a referee has determined that a try has been scored in a less advantageous position due to foul play

well, there shoudnt be one unless it is all but instantaneous. thats my point. Once the PT offense has occurred that is it. Not waiting to see what happens afterwards which may or may not end up with a try scored in a less advantageous position.?

None of the suggested scenarios presented thus far would fit that "all but instaaneous" thing. There is no need to play on for any more advantageous position - the PT is already the most advantageous position to be in as a result of foul play.
 
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Dickie E


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well, there shoudnt be one unless it is all but instantaneous. thats my point. Once the PT offense has occurred that is it. Not waiting to see what happens afterwards which may or may not end up with a try scored in a less advantageous position.?

None of the suggested scenarios presented thus far would fit that "all but instaaneous" thing. There is no need to play on for any more advantageous position - the PT is already the most advantageous position to be in as a result of foul play.

law 7 defines when advantage cannot be applied. The situation under discussion is not one of those:

[LAWS]Advantage must not be applied and the referee must blow the whistle immediately when:

The ball or a player in possession of the ball, touches the referee and an advantage is gained by either side.
The ball comes out of either end of the tunnel at a scrum.
A scrum is wheeled through more than 90 degrees.
A player in a scrum is lifted or forced upwards so that the player is no longer in contact with the ground.
A quick throw, free-kick or penalty is taken incorrectly.
The ball is made dead.
It would be dangerous to let play continue.
It is suspected that a player is seriously injured.[/LAWS]
 

Dickie E


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quite. I think that says everything you need to know about his advice.

a chap once told me that the sun rises in the east then went on to tell me that mermaids are real. I can therefore conclude that the sun does not rise in the east. I expect there is a Latin phrase for this.
 

SimonSmith


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a chap once told me that the sun rises in the east then went on to tell me that mermaids are real. I can therefore conclude that the sun does not rise in the east. I expect there is a Latin phrase for this.

In the ELRA example, the guy said the sun rises in the West, this enabling to cast judgment on his following statements.
 
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