France Vs Wales

[Marc Wakeham]

Superb team of 4. Simply superb.

 

[ChuckieB]

and LP'S consistency with calling for the ball to be used as soon as it became available.

Of his own making or was he given the steer beforehand?

 

[didds]

As LP had already demonstrated that he was prepared to continue giving YCs following his warning to AWJ by giving two for successive PKs ... why no YC for the 3rd PK . Or YC for the 4th?

 

[Pedro]

Absolutely! can’t fault them. Well explained, well managed and ended up with good decisions at almost every point of the game- and there were a lot of big decisions to make.

 

[Zebra1922]

and LP'S consistency with calling for the ball to be used as soon as it became available.

Of his own making or was he given the steer beforehand?

Good to see (hear?) - just need to take the next step and enforce the 5 seconds. Couple of times s/h kicked at 7 or 8 seconds.

 

[belladonna]

Very well managed, and clear and calm communication.

Couple of calls I didn't really understand... No PT for a driving maul going at pace pulled down 5m out... and in the dying minutes just before the last penalty to France, blue goes offside and puts hands on ball to slow it down, then red player in the SH position was pulled into the ruck, and no penalty.

But yeah, amazing match and very well officiated all round!

 

[ACUSmember]

Superb team of 4. Simply superb.

Fully agreed. Wonderful game, with brilliant performance from all the officials.

I thought they could (and should) have concluded there was sufficient evidence that Josh Adams had been held up, but overall that game was an absolute pleasure to watch.

 

[irishref]

How many penalties did he award against Wales in their own 22, under intense French pressure, without going for a Yellow? I counted 7.

 

[didds]

He warned AWJ about repeat pks. Next one got a YC. The next one got another. So why not one each for the next two?

Looked like a cop out frankly.

Adams try was only awarded because the soft signal was try. I’m not convinced that LP could have seen enough to make a call. Has try yes or no disappeared from protocols now?

 

[Balones]

He warned AWJ about repeat pks. Next one got a YC. The next one got another. So why not one each for the next two?

Looked like a cop out frankly.

Adams try was only awarded because the soft signal was try. I’m not convinced that LP could have seen enough to make a call. Has try yes or no disappeared from protocols now?

LP got himself into a corner. We generally advise refs not to simply say that the ‘next one will go’. Because it has really got to depend on circumstances. There is a lot of difference between cynical and accidental/soft penalties. Penalties do happen and sometimes it is because the player concerned simply misjudges a situation. It is much better to say such things as ‘I’ll be looking at cards’, ‘I’m being left with little option’ etc. Awarding of a card should depend on nature of offence, position and the action.
Did LP bottle it? No, he knew that if he continued as he had been then he would have turned the game into a complete debacle and instead of receiving the praise he has it is likely he would have been talked about for different reasons. The players have enough capacity to spoil a game without the referee making it even worse.

 

[didds]

Wadr to balones, that last sentence sums up so much that is wrong with this level of rugby.

That had LP continued to issue cards then HE would have created a complete debacle.. There is no similar blame levelled at the players who CHEAT, attracting a card, from creating a complete debacle by getting carded for cheating.

 

[didds]

Meanwhile I am au fait that you guys advise against the threat of next one goes... but it's clear to me in this 6N and the premiership that this is the exact language used by refs in these competitions.

 

[belhysys]

I am French so biais
I personally dont like the "use it" at every ruck. it becomes background noise and lose any relevance.. IMHO ref should be there to facilitate the game, so impose their view on how fast it needs to be played (until it reach a point where the ref thinks there is an issue).
He got many big calls wrong. 3rd try of Wales is not grounded, but because of the question the TMO can not overrule the decision, Failed to review a potential try from France, and bottle the yellow cards at the end by giving warning without following by the card. The red card is correct, but I would say it should also have been a yellow card for wales because of the number of infringements. And a potential Penalty try for Wales on the collapse maul...
Great game of rugby overall, but I dont think LP was great.

 

[chbg]

Good to see (hear?) - just need to take the next step and enforce the 5 seconds. Couple of times s/h kicked at 7 or 8 seconds.

Really? Examples? 5 secs is (approximately): "thousand and one, thousand and two, thousand and three, thousand and four, thousand and five" not "one ... two ... three ... four ... five". If being pedantic, it needs to be timed from when the SH hears 'it', not from the spoken 'U'. And of course '5 secs' is for the ball to be out of the ruck, not for it to be kicked!!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

USe is is required if the players take longer than the precribed maximim time. Would you prefer no warning and a straight whistle?

The only "mistake" (to my Welsh eyes) was the lack of the PT following the collapsed maul. Referring it upstairs would have made sense. But he made his call and was clear and consise in his explanation.

You hightlight between 5 and 10 "errors" from the referee from a minimum of 500 decisions during the game. That is a pretty darn good effort.

 

[didds]

I think LP had a "good game", and i like him as a ref full stop. very calm, measured, and clear in his comms.

However, it would be naive to not consider some calls yesterday as not being important/game critical

* The on field call of try for Adams try seeme incongruous in the light of LP's normal approach. I honestly cant see how he could make a soft call of "try" requiring definitive evidence to overturn it.

* the lack of referral for a PT for that immense driving maul.

* the lack of continued cards as Wales continued to offend in the red zone after a warning. Others MMV but "making a mockery of the game by doing so" is not a defence. I appreciate LP is not alone in this scenario.


I reiterate he had a good game. But there are some areas that are less clear as to what the proccesses were.

 

[KoolFork]

Red cards are now more common than penalty tries. If that wasn't a penalty try yesterday, what is? I think LP said something like: It wasn't clear to me that a try would have been scored. Whatever happened to 'probable'? Now I know this has never been the mathematical definition of probable, ie 50%+, but we do appear to be nearing the realms of certainty.

 

[KoolFork]

At the risk of disagreeing with everyone apart from belhysys, I thought LP was calling Use it/Jeu too early. At times, the ball was visible, but clearly not playable immediately.

More generally, officials rarely enforce time wasting. Personally, I don't see a need for a second warning. If it were enforced, it would stop.

 

[OB..]

[...] the mathematical definition of probable, ie 50%+, [...].

Mathematically, probability is a number between 0 (Impossible) and 1 (Certain).

The referee simply has to make a judgement call, based on the actual circumstances and his experience of such situations. It is generally impossible to calculate a usable probability.

 

[KoolFork]

LP's words to AWJ were, "I'm not convinced a try would have been scored." To me this suggests, LP is looking for too high a threshold. Probable means LIKELY but NOT CERTAIN.

How many times in 10 would you expect that move to have resulted in a try but for foul play?

My point is that the threshold is very high in international rugby. LP's words suggest it is close to a certainty. The law simply says probable, not even highly probable (which has always been the interpretation for as long as I can remember). I agree it is a judgement call.