France Vs Wales

[crossref]

Ice hockey has known enforcers. Rugby will gravitate to the the most expedient solution. If teams find it works, they’ll do it. It’s the same idea as in NRL when the teams will deliberately give away a set restart if it allows their defense to rearrange

do ice hockey enforcers get RC and subsequent bans?
in NRL when you give away a set restart (whatever that means!) do you get a subsequent disciplinary and a ban?

 

[SimonSmith]

do ice hockey enforcers get RC and subsequent bans?
in NRL when you give away a set restart (whatever that means!) do you get a subsequent disciplinary and a ban?

No. Thereby making it expedient...
Teams would have to work out if X minutes with 14 vs an opposition at 15 without a game breaker is worth it.
Some team would.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I think perhaps yes - -- it seems to me that a player would normally be very reluctant to get himself deliberately RC, that's quite a personal cost -- and also, more optimistically, I think the vast majority of rugby players would find it unthinkable to deliberately set out to commit a RC offence.

but you may be right. Hopefully the trial will provide some data on this.

A well paid "journeyman" enforcer. Paid to take a red for the team here and there. Not a bad earner. Back in the day every team had an enforcer. Getting paid for it as well. Plead guilty take nice bickies to the hearing apologise immediately. Nice work if you can get it.

 

[crossref]

A well paid "journeyman" enforcer. Paid to take a red for the team here and there. Not a bad earner. Back in the day every team had an enforcer. Getting paid for it as well. Plead guilty take nice bickies to the hearing apologise immediately. Nice work if you can get it.

i think this has become more and more fanciful - a player with a record of multiple RC for violent play would face swiftly escalating bans, and massive discomfort for the clubs owners and sponsors

And for what? Paint me a rugby scenario where a team would use such a player, and where it would be to their advantage to have a man sent of and play with 14 players for 20mins/rest of the match

 

[didds]

Playing deveils advocate here CR

last twenty, and certainly last 10... take one for the tream when 2 points ahead ansd remove their only recognised kicker from the team.

And FWIW teams wouldnt have a designated enforcer that attracts inreasing attention for the RCs... the "job" would get shared around the team. Probably not the goal kicker, probably not the scrumhalf. But thats a one in thirteen weeks, maybe two RCs a season per player and its less than that by te time you factor in the bench for each game and squad rotations etc. you oculd probaly pretty much make that one RC a season per player tops

I underline this is a devils advocate post! ~

 

[Marc Wakeham]

i think this has become more and more fanciful - a player with a record of multiple RC for violent play would face swiftly escalating bans, and massive discomfort for the clubs owners and sponsors

And for what? Paint me a rugby scenario where a team would use such a player, and where it would be to their advantage to have a man sent of and play with 14 players for 20mins/rest of the match

You mean like an international with over 52 weeks worth of bans that gets reductions based on his "good record". Could never happen. Of course you are right.

Of course you chose to ignore that the enforcer (if only one) would not be required every week due to the nature of different opposition / level of game etc.

 

[SimonSmith]

You mean like an international with over 52 weeks worth of bans that gets reductions based on his "good record". Could never happen. Of course you are right.

Of course you chose to ignore that the enforcer (if only one) would not be required every week due to the nature of different opposition / level of game etc.

A player like that could never be selected as a national captain either.

We need to stop pretending that rugby union is above significant cheating.
Bloodgate.
Tactical replacements being brought in because teams were routinely cheating the injury substitution laws that were in effect at the time.
Shamateurism.
Recurrent bouts of eye gouging.

Across the lands, a good ball playing 10 will routinely get a "mistimed" tackle, especially in the first 5 minutes deep in his own 22. Let's not pretend that taking an opposition player out is beyond the bounds of possibility.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

National Captain? Of course not. How could that ever be considered.

 

[crossref]

Playing deveils advocate here CR

last twenty, and certainly last 10... take one for the tream when 2 points ahead ansd remove their only recognised kicker from the team.

And FWIW teams wouldnt have a designated enforcer that attracts inreasing attention for the RCs... the "job" would get shared around the team. Probably not the goal kicker, probably not the scrumhalf. But thats a one in thirteen weeks, maybe two RCs a season per player and its less than that by te time you factor in the bench for each game and squad rotations etc. you oculd probaly pretty much make that one RC a season per player tops

I underline this is a devils advocate post! ~

the last twenty the trial makes no difference, does it ?

So do we currently see people 'taking out' the oppo in the last 10-20 minutes?
Are there more RC in the last quarter than the first ? That would be a good stat to know.


I just don't think that players take a RC for the team. A technical YC, yes, that can definitely be worth it - but not a RC, with all the subsequent disciplinary consequence.


Anyone got any examples of where a player committed a deliberate act of foul play, knowing a RC would follow, but not caring?

 

[Dickie E]

Anyone got any examples of where a player committed a deliberate act of foul play, knowing a RC would follow, but not caring?

does getting sent to Facebook gaol count?

 

[SimonSmith]

the last twenty the trial makes no difference, does it ?

So do we currently see people 'taking out' the oppo in the last 10-20 minutes?
Are there more RC in the last quarter than the first ? That would be a good stat to know.


I just don't think that players take a RC for the team. A technical YC, yes, that can definitely be worth it - but not a RC, with all the subsequent disciplinary consequence.


Anyone got any examples of where a player committed a deliberate act of foul play, knowing a RC would follow, but not caring?

Yes. A few rounds ago, a bad daisy cutter on the opposition 10. Absolutely deliberate, definitely targeting

 

[crossref]

Yes. A few rounds ago, a bad daisy cutter on the opposition 10. Absolutely deliberate, definitely targeting

did he get a RC ?

 

[didds]

Mike Burton 1975

 

[Balones]

Mike Burton 1975

Wasn’t that on the winger?

 

[didds]

Late tackle on a winger indeed. the FOURTH minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhZyzmZszWk

How many 2021 red cards can you see in that first punch up in that video?

 

[SimonSmith]

did he get a RC ?

Oh yes.

 

[crossref]

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[Marc Wakeham]

Interesting point interestingly made.