Fumbled and touch

[Taff]

Hang on, if the ball makes contact with something in touch.... the ball is then in touch. End of chat. Is that right?

Wrong I'm afraid.

A player in touch can slap the ball infield as long as it hasn't crossed the plane of touch.

I know this was a previous game, but I only watched the recording today. Some of the commentators obviously got it wrong. In fact the commentators got a few calls wrong despite watching them a few times. :frown:

 

[Pegleg]

I'm real life you can't tell whether it crossed the plane. But go on, spell out the answer to what becomes four scenarios . You can also address the ball that straddles the plane of touch if you like

Blue kicks high for touch

Red player positions himself to catch the ball, with one foot in touch ,one foot in the field of play... And..

1. Ball crosses line of touch, Red fumbles the catch knocking it forward, ball lands on field of play line out as if kicked straight out.

2. Ball crosses line of touch, Red fumbles the catch and ball goes backward landing in touch. Touch as if kicked out on the full. The catcher/fumbler is in touch.

3. Ball does not cross the line of touch, red fumbles the catch knocking it forward, ball lands on field of play Knock on by Red

4. Ball does not cross the line of touch, red fumbles the catch and ball goes backward landing in touch. Line out Blue throw.

If the ball straddles the plane of touch I would treat it the same as a ball touching the line. On / over the line = in touch. So scenarios 5 & 6 are the same as 1 & 2

 

[Blackberry]

Wrong I'm afraid.

A player in touch can slap the ball infield as long as it hasn't crossed the plane of touch.

I know this was a previous game, but I only watched the recording today. Some of the commentators obviously got it wrong. In fact the commentators got a few calls wrong despite watching them a few times. :frown:

Hi Taff,
No I think I'm OK. I've checked the scenario, and he didn't slap the ball, he tried to catch it, but fumbled it. I would happily go with touch here. If the ball hit him and bounced off. all in an instant, the law would still say touch to me, but it would be a harder sell.

 

[ChrisR]

I'm in agreement with Blackberry.

Player straddling the LoT? Hits him in the chest? Very hard to imagine that no part of the ball was ever in contact with the plane of touch.

Pegleg, ball doesn't have to 'cross' the plane of touch.

 

[Dixie]

I'm in agreement with Blackberry.

Player straddling the LoT? Hits him in the chest? Very hard to imagine that no part of the ball was ever in contact with the plane of touch.

In both scenarios, the would-be catcher positioned a foot in touch to try to get the "kicked out of the full". In the first case, because he was then in an unnatural position trying to catch a ball infield, he dropped it. Blackberry, in the field of play, we'd call this a clear and obvious "knock" on. Why do you feel it is not a "knock" if the player is straddling the line of touch?

 

[Browner]

Here's a thought ..........

Are all 'straddling' decisions soley dependant on catching the ball , failure to do so means in touch doesn't apply for any time its knocked back into the FOP ..irrespective of whether its;
backwards = play on, or
forwards = knock on

[LAWS]The ball is in touch if a player catches the ball and that player has a foot on the touchline or the ground beyond the touchline. If a player has one foot in the field of play and one foot in touch and holds the ball, the ball is in touch.[/LAWS]

 

[Blackberry]

In both scenarios, the would-be catcher positioned a foot in touch to try to get the "kicked out of the full". In the first case, because he was then in an unnatural position trying to catch a ball infield, he dropped it. Blackberry, in the field of play, we'd call this a clear and obvious "knock" on. Why do you feel it is not a "knock" if the player is straddling the line of touch?

Hi Dixie
Good question. I know that touch occurs the instant before knock on....so touch trumps knock on.

 

[Dixie]

Hi Dixie
Good question. I know that touch occurs the instant before knock on....so touch trumps knock on.

But a player in touch is entitled to knock the ball that is in-field without if being called "touch". This fellow knocked the ball, so it is NOT in touch. Having knocked it, it went forward. Why is that not then a scrum 5m in?

 

[Taff]

But a player in touch is entitled to knock the ball that is in-field without if being called "touch". This fellow knocked the ball, so it is NOT in touch. Having knocked it, it went forward. Why is that not then a scrum 5m in?

Exactly. From the definitions

A player in touch may kick or knock the ball, but not hold it, provided it has not crossed the plane of the touchline. The plane of the touchline is the vertical space rising immediately above the touchline.

If he can knock / slap it infield ... then he can accidentally knock or slap it forward surely. And a fumbled catch is a knock in my book.