Has the game been ruined?

[BikingBud]

Do you feel the game has been destroyed?

"He [Evans] needs to put forward a motion of no confidence in the chairman of World Rugby, Bill Beaumont, who has overseen the destruction of what has been a fabulous game with the changes of the laws over the last 10-15 years that have made it a game that really is not acceptable any more,"

There is a lot of off-topic comment, doesn't fit under the click bait headline, within the article but if you had the power what laws would you change?

How would you change the emphasis to ensure show rugby and grass roots rugby remind the same game?

 

[Phil E]

I would ditch this mockery of one set of laws for everyone, and have a professional set of laws for TV rugby and another set for real rugby.

 

[didds]

I'm pretty much with Phil here.

Or at least one set of laws with a side set of regulations for the pro game where the normal alws do not apply/have alternative interpretations.
TBH from the grass roots community rugby I see I dont see the current laws creating issues - scrums dont collapse, arent used as a PK machines, lineouts form suitably quickly etc, players do not time waste ...

 

[crossref]

I would ditch this mockery of one set of laws for everyone, and have a professional set of laws for TV rugby and another set for real rugby.

i wonder if it would be possible to have one set of Laws, but different and publicly available Game Management Guidelines that set out how the Laws should be interpreted/managed.

So to be be explict, three publications
1 The Laws of the Game
2 Game Management Guidelines for Elite Rugby, [World Wide, this should be the same everywhere]
3 Game Management Guidelines for Grass Roots Rugby (Country-specific)

(edit - ah , I see didds got there before me with the same idea !)

I do think it would be important to have the GMGs public, so that players can easily understand then that the game is deliberately managed differently and elite and grass roots levels. So they won't expect it to be the same when they play.

 

[Mipper]

I would ditch this mockery of one set of laws for everyone, and have a professional set of laws for TV rugby and another set for real rugby.

Yup I have long believed this to be necessary.

 

[Mipper]

I might also add, having read Thorburns thoughts, that I don’t see much sense in what he is saying. Particularly that World Rugby is destroying the game.

There are certainly many elements of the game that could be better, we all know this, but I think he is guilty of some incoherent correlations here.

He say that law changes over the last 10-15 years have made the game more dangerous. I wouldn’t suggest that all law changes are great, or that we cannot do more around safety but I cannot subscribe to this part of his rant.

What he does say, with great validity, is that European rugby is in a mess, and that Welsh rugby is in a bigger mess, but I struggle a little to see how he can blame WR for this - unless he is aware of some magic wand that they may have?

 

[Balones]

I didn’t see any detail in Thorburn’s comments. What particular laws is he commenting on?

 

[didds]

(edit - ah , I see didds got there before me with the same idea !)

great minds/fools.... take your pick!

 

[Harry]

My job entails turning government legislation into easily understood manuals. We write, read and teach these manuals to mechanics who then have to apply this stuff to vehicle testing.
It is a job for a pedant.

That is the sort of mind we need to re-write the Rugby lawbook.
Cos I look at that and think "Who the hell wrote this rubbish" It can be interpreted many different ways.
Not to mention no-one knowing what a straight throw in at a scrum is.
And (never start a sentence with and) When is it ok to tackle a scrum half ?

Then you need a selection of proof-readers. Some must be semi literate. Some must have never seen a Rugby ball. Some must be Refs. Some ex-players and some must be keen beginners.

I love the game. The Laws are a mess.

 

[Mipper]

I didn’t see any detail in Thorburn’s comments. What particular laws is he commenting on?

Well he doesn’t which is why it comes across so poorly. A machine-gun rant at everyone.

I had a (very quick) think about what laws, but couldn’t really come up with anything. My view is that despite the head lawsuits and everything around concussion, the game has become safer.

 

[Mipper]

My job entails turning government legislation into easily understood manuals. We write, read and teach these manuals to mechanics who then have to apply this stuff to vehicle testing.
It is a job for a pedant.

That is the sort of mind we need to re-write the Rugby lawbook.
Cos I look at that and think "Who the hell wrote this rubbish" It can be interpreted many different ways.
Not to mention no-one knowing what a straight throw in at a scrum is.
And (never start a sentence with and) When is it ok to tackle a scrum half ?

Then you need a selection of proof-readers. Some must be semi literate. Some must have never seen a Rugby ball. Some must be Refs. Some ex-players and some must be keen beginners.

I love the game. The Laws are a mess.

Someone said to me once that Football has rules, and Rugby has laws for a reason.

Rules are to be followed whilst laws are for guidance.

I have no ownership of this position, and have no idea as the the “legality” of this, but I do quite like it.

 

[crossref]

now that football has VAR, I see all the same issues that we have had to deal with the TMO.
I don't think it's very different

 

[Phil E]

Cos I look at that and think "Who the hell wrote this rubbish" It can be interpreted many different ways.

The laws are a framework, they are not meant to be black and white. This gives referees the ability to interpret the laws in a sensible fashion.
Otherwise you could just have a robot ref the game.

 

[crossref]

The laws are a framework, they are not meant to be black and white. This gives referees the ability to interpret the laws in a sensible fashion.
Otherwise you could just have a robot ref the game.

we have one of those. He's Grade 6

 

[Harry]

The laws are a framework, they are not meant to be black and white. This gives referees the ability to interpret the laws in a sensible fashion.
Otherwise you could just have a robot ref the game.

Which is why this week I tackle the 9 and get pinged and next week it's ok.

 

[crossref]

Which is why this week I tackle the 9 and get pinged and next week it's ok.

Last week, did he have the ball ?

 

[Harry]

Last week, did he have the ball ?

Both times

 

[belladonna]

I didn’t see any detail in Thorburn’s comments. What particular laws is he commenting on?

Former Wales captain Paul Thorburn says World Rugby chairman Sir Bill Beaumont has "overseen the destruction" of rugby union because of law changes.

Thorburn has also called for a motion of no confidence in the former England captain, who was elected in 2016.

"The laws of the game that have been changed over the last 15, 20 years have made the game… in effect rugby league with 15 players," Thorburn said.

"There's no rucks. There's no mauls. The tackle laws, the line-out laws."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63834165

 

[Balones]

Former Wales captain Paul Thorburn says World Rugby chairman Sir Bill Beaumont has "overseen the destruction" of rugby union because of law changes.

Thorburn has also called for a motion of no confidence in the former England captain, who was elected in 2016.

"The laws of the game that have been changed over the last 15, 20 years have made the game… in effect rugby league with 15 players," Thorburn said.

"There's no rucks. There's no mauls. The tackle laws, the line-out laws."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63834165

That’s what I read. He doesn’t mention specific laws. He only refers to aspects of play that the laws are applied to. A ruck is not a law etc. ‘The tackle laws, the lineout laws’ - Is merely a vague statement - Yes the laws exist. What about them? He doesn’t provide any detail about how the changes in law have been detrimental to the game other than the vague (and exaggerated) comparison with league. What laws would he like to reverse? Or improve?
Complaining is easy; providing answers and solutions is far more difficult.

 

[SimonSmith]

*Possibly ill informed diatribe incoming*

The game is in ill health. Some of that is law-driven, some of it is player/coach-driven, with Elite referee collusion.

The best games of International rugby I've seen in the last few years have been the Women's World Cup. The games with the most ball in play? Go on, guess....

The scrum is, if you'll excuse my language, a fucking mess, and no-one seems inclined to fix it. What does fixing it mean? Set time limits on forming up? Free kicks only? Mandated bins after 2PKs? Straight feeds? Shooting Richard Cockerill? Any combination of these?

I don't know. But surely to God someone could come up with something. Someone could admit that this is a mess and we need to do something. It's a blight on the game.

The breakdown isn't an audience-enahncing experience either. Let's look at it this way. I live with my American wife, whotries to be interested in the same things I am. She's just about got the fine details of Test Match cricket down, except Third Innings declarations, but Joe Root never got them, so she can have a pass there. The other issue she has is the break down. Now, she lives with a referee, who has 30 years with a whistle under his belt, who spends most of his offtime thinking about this stuff. I reckon, even after a replay, my accuracy rate on explaining what happened is not brilliant. I can explain the various factors that the referee might have been thinking about, but why Wayne blew this week and Ben didn't last week in almost identical circusmtances (hands beyond the ball, for example) is beyond me. Out in the land of civilians, that can't be a good experience.

The jackler, in my opinion, has just fucked the game. It makes the ruck non contestable, and clogs up the midfield. I would spend a lot of time and money trying to make that phase a LOT more competitive requiring a lot more forwards to participate.

I'd also think about going back to injury-only replacements and let fatigue start to play a part in the game.

And since we're talking crazy. Incrase the bonus points for tries scores. And add negative points for penalties awarded against you.