High LH Binding

chbg


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19.11 When both sides are square, stable and stationary, the referee calls “bind”.

a. Each loose-head prop binds by placing the left arm inside the right arm of the opposing tight-head prop.
b. Each tight-head prop binds by placing the right arm outside the left upper arm of the opposing loose-head prop.
c. Each prop binds by gripping the back or side of their opponent’s jersey.


At a recent out-of-county L7 Exchange the MOD made the following comment:

"He did not monitor, nor control, the high elbow binding of the Red loose head. This illegal binding forced Blue's tight head to bind far higher than he should - thus loosing all strength and power."

His powers of observation are good, but I am not so sure that I have any Law reference on which to base the assertion of illegality. Neither Red's coach nor skipper/hooker accepted it either in discussion in the bar afterwards. The LH did not stay as long as the MOD debrief, so no discussion with him, but I was told that he was an U20 Academy player, so I guess has been coached in that manner. Pertinently, I felt, Blue TH made no comment about it at any stage (and again I had no chance to discuss with him afterwards). Indeed I felt that, apart from once on a 5m scrum (resulting in a Red PT), this was as honest a straight-pushing contest throughout the game from both teams as one could hope to see. I would check for a short bind pulling down, but have not been aware before of having to watch for a bind too high.

Subsequent discussion with the MOD toned down "illegal binding" to "contentious binding" in the final report. So perhaps ...

The MOD made the helpful suggestion that this high binding would be observed from watching the level of the backs of the front rows.

But my queries for the FR experts are:

Is this a binding 'trick' coached at higher levels? Is it somehow illegal/unsafe and should therefore be stopped? Should I try to manage the LH to bind more normally (if I ever see it again)? Or is it up to the TH to counteract?

Thanks.
 

Decorily

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I'm not understanding....how was the bind referred to illegal?
 

chbg


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I'm not understanding....how was the bind referred to illegal?
I'm not understanding....how was the bind referred to illegal?
"high elbow binding" i.e. elbow pointing up into the sky and a bind clearly on the TH's back, rather than side. The MOD was adamant that is was not good, as it denied the TH a strong position.
 

Balones

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It is coached. Fundamentally used to stop the T/H exerting downward pressure and prevent hinging by either prop. In many respects it is to be encouraged because it helps to keep the scrum up. What you have to look out for is the L/H using this position to illegally drive the T/H up/in. It is only L/Hs with flexible shoulders or long arms that can do it.
 

Phil E


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I would be saying happy days, because the one thing I don't want is elbows pointing down.

IMO the MOD was fundamentally wrong to call it illegal. I want a bind on the back or side of the shirt, the higher the better. Your own quote of the law confirms this. I would have probably made a comment in the referees section of the Form 2 asking for a law reference from the MOD. 'Some' of them haven't read the law book for donkeys years.

Each prop binds by gripping the back or side of their opponent’s jersey.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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It is coached. Fundamentally used to stop the T/H exerting downward pressure and prevent hinging by either prop. In many respects it is to be encouraged because it helps to keep the scrum up. What you have to look out for is the L/H using this position to illegally drive the T/H up/in. It is only L/Hs with flexible shoulders or long arms that can do it.
mrtickle.jpg
 

Marc Wakeham


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Agreed. MOD is coming from a very odd place.
 

didds

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"high elbow binding" i.e. elbow pointing up into the sky and a bind clearly on the TH's back, rather than side. The MOD was adamant that is was not good, as it denied the TH a strong position.
How? It hasnt stopped the TH putting his bind in unless someone is going to insist that the TH arm is adjacent to the "high" position of the LH's. Is that what the MOD kmeant? Cos if he didnt explain fully then his point is meangless.
 

chbg


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chbg


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It is coached. Fundamentally used to stop the T/H exerting downward pressure and prevent hinging by either prop. In many respects it is to be encouraged because it helps to keep the scrum up. What you have to look out for is the L/H using this position to illegally drive the T/H up/in. It is only L/Hs with flexible shoulders or long arms that can do it.
Thank you. The one (5m) scrum failure was the opposing TH going inwards - perhaps it was the clever LH only exploiting his advantage on that one, highly rewarding, occasion (in which case he was supremely disciplined!). Of course I penalised the TH, but I will now know to watch out for this exploitation of the technique.
 

chbg


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I would be saying happy days, because the one thing I don't want is elbows pointing down.

IMO the MOD was fundamentally wrong to call it illegal. I want a bind on the back or side of the shirt, the higher the better. Your own quote of the law confirms this. I would have probably made a comment in the referees section of the Form 2 asking for a law reference from the MOD. 'Some' of them haven't read the law book for donkeys years.

Each prop binds by gripping the back or side of their opponent’s jersey.
Well I got him to change the wording from illegal to contentious! And still commented that I needed to investigate it further.
 

Zebra1922


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Feedback on referees is like all feedback, take what you want and ignore the rest. People will say stuff that chimes with you, that is a genuine error or development point And something to work on. People may also say things you disagree with or maybe are even wrong. As long as you don’t get the same points constantly from different people, feel free to ignore the stuff you don’t agree with.
 
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