Hollow apologies

[Ciaran Trainor]

I've seen a number of disciplinary cases recently and over the years where the fact that someone who has been Red Carded has their ban reduced as it has been recorded that they apologised to the Ref and the maybe the victim of foul play after the match.
I know that often the club suits encourage the perpetrator to do this knowing it will help any future ban.
As a ref I'm always told to put down any apology on my my sending off report.
Now I know that some apologies are genuine and should be noted but should it have any affect on the sanction?

 

[chbg]

Disciplinary panels should/do pay more attention to / put more weight on an immediate apology, particularly on the pitch, reported by the referee, rather than as an afterthought after receiving the case papers. But any apology requires noting, in order to avoid accusation of a miscarriage. It is expected that an apology will be made.

It takes more than an apology for mitigation of up to 50% of the standard tariff, specifically (within RFU/WRU):

• Acknowledgement of commission of foul play
• Player's disciplinary record/good character
• Youth & inexperience of player
• Conduct to and at hearing
• Remorse and timing of remorse
• Any other off-field mitigation

 

[Marc Wakeham]

"Player's disciplinary record/good character" yet an international with approaching a years worth of ban's over his career get his good character taken into account. An apology , remores and good contuct at and to the committee should be a minimum standard expected and not a reason for reductions in bans..

 

[chbg]

Well, it's rather like letting convicted criminals out of prison halfway through their actual sentence.

 

[SimonSmith]

 

[Dickie E]

Now I know that some apologies are genuine and should be noted but should it have any affect on the sanction?

Absolutely. It would be a particularly nasty society that didn't recognise & reward contrition & regret by an offender, whether on a rugby field or elsewhere.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

Absolutely. It would be a particularly nasty society that didn't recognise & reward contrition & regret by an offender, whether on a rugby field or elsewhere.

Except for repeat offenders. We had a guy who is now sitting through a 6 year ban for repeated thuggery who "apologised" after every single one of his 11 red cards and countless YC in 5 years. At some stage the concept of an apology starts to lose meaning from a bloke who clearly doesn't give a sh*t about his behaviour.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Well, it's rather like letting convicted criminals out of prison halfway through their actual sentence.

Well their actuall sentence is half of their names sentence assuming they behave. However, yes Sentence to X years and add on time for bad behaviour in my book.

Absolutely. It would be a particularly nasty society that didn't recognise & reward contrition & regret by an offender, whether on a rugby field or elsewhere.

Come on.:
"Fred your hearing is tomorrow. Buy some nice biscuits and wear a nice suit. OH and look as you mean it when you say sorry for taking out thier goal kicking 10".

 

[Dickie E]

Come on.:
"Fred your hearing is tomorrow. Buy some nice biscuits and wear a nice suit. OH and look as yo umean it whnen you say sorry for taking out thier goal kicking 10".

so the player who apologies as he's heading for an early shower gets the same punishment as the player who gives the ref the finger as he's heading for an early shower?

Were you William Bligh in a previous life?

 

[Volun-selected]

For those of you who've been involved in the disciplinary side - do you see a distribution of offenders? A few you see once, most you see a couple of times over the years, and some that seem to be regulars? Or an Pareto 80:20 where most players are single offenders, etc?
Is the insincere apology an edge case for the repeat offenders and the system works in the majority and needs a tweak, or is a fundamental shift needed?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

so the player who apologies as he's heading for an early shower gets the same punishment as the player who gives the ref the finger as he's heading for an early shower?

Were you William Bligh in a previous life?

No in your description the finger giver has aggrevated the situation. The apology will be judged on it's merits. Can you see the difference?

An apology has to at least sound genuine rather than doing it for the sake of it. I've manage enough people to know the difference.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

No in your description the finger giver has aggrevated the situation. The apology will be judged on it's merits. Can you see the difference?

An apology has to at least sound genuine rather than doing it for the sake of it. I've manage enough people to know the difference.

The problem is Mark, in any report I do, I cannot put my own thoughts on whether I think it was sincere or not even though probably know the difference.

 

[chbg]

The problem is Mark, in any report I do, I cannot put my own thoughts on whether I think it was sincere or not even though probably know the difference.

Actions speak louder than words - was the first apology, e.g. to a struck player, on the pitch? Was there an apology, to player and/or referee, immediately after the match before leaving the pitch? Did the player approach the referee (contritely) in the bar afterwards? Or is it just a a written phrase in response to the charge sheet? Disciplinary panels will not take all these apologies as equivalent.

You can certainly include the words used in your report (if you wish to): "sorry" is not as helpful to the player as "ref, I am really sorry that I lost control and ...".

The referee's report can certainly influence the Panel.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

The problem is Mark, in any report I do, I cannot put my own thoughts on whether I think it was sincere or not even though probably know the difference.

"The player came up to me in the bar and offered a garbled apology whilst drinking and grinning widely" might convey the "mood" of the moment.