How do we feel about this decision

chrismtl


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Looks right to me.

As for binning a player being stretchered off, I've RC'd a player that was carried off in an ambulance before...if they deserve it, they should get it.
 

Ian_Cook


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I already know Ian's reply!

https://youtu.be/HFffCRsTsfo


And I don't even have to look at the video to know what is is.

This is another example of the Law gone mad.

The referee makes the statement "the player is not in a realistic position to catch the ball". That is complete bollocks. Of course he's in position to catch it; he's right under the point where it is coming down, with his eyes on the ball waiting to catch it, exactly how players from kiddies to seniors have been coached to do it for over 100 years. He would have too if some idiot opponent hadn't jumped dangerously and clattered him head high and knocked him unconscious.

If the Law says that a player is committing dangerous play when he is hardly moving looking at the ball, then that runs against everything the game is about. By rights, it should have been the Blue player who copped a YC/RC for dangerous play. By jumping in such a fashion, he exposes everyone around him to the danger he creates.

I feel almost ashamed to admit to others that I was a referee when I see this kind of farcical decision.

The player on his feet is king, except when he's not.... apparently!

Also I'll pre-empt OB's reply. The player on the ground cannot expect the opponent will jump. Players jump to catch a high kicked ball less than 1 time in 5 (<20%).

ETA: If they cannot resolve these issues in a fair manner, then Its time jumping to catch the ball in generla play was banned altogether
 
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OB..


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And I don't even have to look at the video to know what is is.

This is another example of the Law gone mad.

The referee makes the statement "the player is not in a realistic position to catch the ball". That is complete bollocks. Of course he's in position to catch it; he's right under the point where it is coming down, with his eyes on the ball waiting to catch it, exactly how players from kiddies to seniors have been coached to do it for over 100 years. He would have too if some idiot opponent hadn't jumped dangerously and clattered him head high and knocked him unconscious.

If the Law says that a player is committing dangerous play when he is hardly moving looking at the ball, then that runs against everything the game is about. By rights, it should have been the Blue player who copped a YC/RC for dangerous play. By jumping in such a fashion, he exposes everyone around him to the danger he creates.

I feel almost ashamed to admit to others that I was a referee when I see this kind of farcical decision.

The player on his feet is king, except when he's not.... apparently!

Also I'll pre-empt OB's reply. The player on the ground cannot expect the opponent will jump. Players jump to catch a high kicked ball less than 1 time in 5 (<20%).

ETA: If they cannot resolve these issues in a fair manner, then Its time jumping to catch the ball in generla play was banned altogether
You think a player is entitled to ignore what other players are doing. I don't.
 

SimonSmith


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I think he was well positioned.
The player jumped.
For my money, he can stand his ground. Caveat Jumper.

100% agree with Ian on this.
 

Ian_Cook


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You think a player is entitled to ignore what other players are doing. I don't.

First, I can turn that right around and ask if you think the jumping player is allowed to ignore what others are doing.

Second, a player is entitled to not see what others are doing, especially if he is doing what he has been coached to do since he was a mini... "keep your eyes on the ball!"

IMO a player who jumps so that he gets his knees, feet, hips up at head height, ought to have a duty of care to those who are in his landing zone. The onus should be on him to ensure that he doesn't endanger anyone by jumping. He is the player who is running at speed with no ability to control what happens once he jumps so he has to be mindful of the consequences of his actions.
I know this is not how it is currently ruled, but I think its how it should be.
 

4eyesbetter


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Why does there seem to have been a rash of this sort of thing in the last couple of years?
 

Taff


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Why does there seem to have been a rash of this sort of thing in the last couple of years?
Wasn't there a memo or directive issued in the last year or so? I seem to remember something after an incident at a Wales international.

I think Ian has a point.
 

TigerCraig


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You think a player is entitled to ignore what other players are doing. I don't.

Looks to me like Blue was doing the ignoring - he put himself in a dangerous position
 

The Fat


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What the law makers are saying is that if a player in off the ground then he can't control what happens in relation to how he lands if impacted by another player. Therefore it is the other player's responsibility to have some degree of control over the situation. The problem arises when a player is in position first, under where the ball is coming down and a player then jumps and "causes" the dangerous contact
 

Dickie E


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In OP, Blue player uses arm to prevent himself landing on his head. So if foul play committed, shouldn't it be red card?


Question: Red lineout jumper gets it wrong, topples onto Blue opponent and lands on head. Card to Blue player?
 
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The Fat


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In OP, Blue player uses arm to prevent himself landing on his head. So if foul play committed, shouldn't it be red card?


Question: Red lineout jumper gets it wrong, topples onto Blue opponent and lands on head. Card to Blue player?

Wholly dependent on blue player's action.
Standing in normal position and on his side of LoT, no action.
Providing he didn't move under the jumper or didn't take out a supporting lifter then blue has done nothing wrong
 
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crossref


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eventually someone will get hit from behind by a leaping player who lands on his head...

that will be interesting
 

didds

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No point in discussing it.

we've been here before and have entrenched positions.

didds
 

Pegleg

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Surely this is something that you can't have a hard and fast rule on. A jumper has to be mindful of what he is jumping into as does someone running towards a high ball with out the intention to jump. Once a jumper is off the floor he is not going to be able to alter his direction. A referee MUST SURELY judge each incident on its own merits. sometimes the jumper will be the one at fault and sometimes the runner.

As long as the game has a hard and fast law / ruling which has no empathy with the players, the laws are a herd of asses.
 

DocY


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How about this as a way forward for determining fault?

Treat the situation as if neither player jumped. Then ask yourself if you thought there was any obstruction, tackling off the ball or whatever and, if so, who did it. If you don't see anything C&O from one side or the other, play on.

I have little hope left for the top brass to allow referees to use their common sense to decide what constitutes dangerous play.
 

Christy


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hi guys / girls
C J stander got a red card as he was the jumper { similar to video shown here } against south africa a few weeks back
im not sure red was correct .

however i believe CJ was reckless in his play {{ as he did a very similar move }}
maybe somebody can put it up .
 

OB..


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First, I can turn that right around and ask if you think the jumping player is allowed to ignore what others are doing.
Neither. Both are expected to react to the situation properly, which at the moment means jumping if the catch is going to be contested.

Second, a player is entitled to not see what others are doing, especially if he is doing what he has been coached to do since he was a mini... "keep your eyes on the ball!"
Overly simplistic. It is a hallmark of a good player to be aware of what others are doing. How else can he decide what to do?
I know this is not how it is currently ruled, but I think its how it should be.
Unless and until there is a sensible law to deal with it (not easy IMHO), the decision was therefore justifiable.
 

OB..


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C J stander got a red card as he was the jumper { similar to video shown here } against south africa a few weeks back
Wasn't that the case where he was jumping to block a kick? Quite different. You know the kicker won't be leaping for the ball but will be on one leg and unable to take evasive action. Therefore you should not jump in such a way as to land on him.
 

DocY


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Wasn't that the case where he was jumping to block a kick? Quite different. You know the kicker won't be leaping for the ball but will be on one leg and unable to take evasive action. Therefore you should not jump in such a way as to land on him.

Yes, trying to charge down the kick. As you say, quite different. I don't think there was any question that Stander was in the wrong, just of how wrong he was!
 
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