How Long To Attempt To Alert The Referee

[jdeagro]

Hi,

Yesterday I AR'ed my first game (which was my friends first game in which he was refereeing.) It was a U18 High School level game here in the USA. Though expected to be a sloppy match of sorts, it actually ran rather smoothly.

Though there were two major occurrences during the game in which I tried signaling to the referee but he did not see my signal right away and play continued. I eventually put my flag down after play continued for what I deemed a significant amount of time. I was wondering if I should have really kept my flag up longer and how long for the following two circumstances:

1) The first occurrence was the ball carrier was tackled (just barely) into touch but a ruck formed quickly and ball was taken out quickly and whipped out wide to the opposite side of the field, which resulted in the referee not seeing my flag go up. After about half a minute from when I originally put my flag up and the ball was advanced a good 10 meters or so, I put my flag down.

2) The second occurrence was that the ball carrier from Team A was attacking with the ball when a small scuffle occurred on the other side of the field, and the referee blew the whistle to stop play. Unfortunately the referee and I did not see what or who caused the scuffle, but fortunately it was stopped before any physicality occurred. I was holding a mark in line with where the ball carrier from Team A was when play was stopped. When the referee restarted play with a scrum to the attacking team, he accidentally made the mark 10m behind where the ball carrier was when play stopped. I tried signaling to him and calling out his name, but it was too late and the scrum occurred, Team A (the team putting in) won the ball, passed it out, and played on. At this point I deemed it too late to do anything.

Aside from how long I should try getting the referees attention, are there other ways I could have managed these situations better?

Thank You,
-Jon

 

[Jacko]

1) I don't think you've got any option apart from keeping your flag up for as long as it takes in this situation. Imagine if a try had been scored from this and someone from the defending side had seen that you'd put your flag up. You'd have nowhere to go - embarassing for you and the ref. Just keep it up and keep shouting until you get heard.

2) You were spot on for this one - it's a little untidy, but not a big deal. Just get on with it.

Just hope you keep improving so you get involved with games with comms equipment - much easier that way!!

 

[Pinky]

Agree with Jacko on both situations. Only way to get better attention of ref is coms. But look it was the ref's first game, so give him a bit of slack. If the two situations you describe were the only things to think about, then he had a great first game. If dealing with handbags for the first time meant he forgot where to restart or that you might have remembered, then forgive, it's not a serious problem. Good on him too for getting the game to run smoothly.

You can always talk to him about how to work better as a team of three after the game or just before you do the next one.

 

[Davet]

Agree with Jacko

Touch - your flag goes up, so touch given and you can't back down unless over-ruled by the ref. If he simply hasn't see it then stay where you are keep the flag up and wait - you may feel that your friend reffing is not best served by this, but he really does need to learn to take a wider view - and LOOK at TJs flags. Someone will notice and tell him. PS since a few people have handled the ball after the touch, no QT is possible - so stick your arm out to indicate whose throw.

2nd one - no biggie - scrum and restart were fine, just in slightly the wrong place - and anyway unless you have been asked to mark these things by the ref before the game it's not your duty to do so, as TJ or as appointed AR. Fine if you can let him know discreetly, but you really don't want to be shouting the odds to him across the field, that will reduce the players confidence in him.

 

[crossref]

I have touch judges who put their flag up hesitantly and if they don't hear a validating whistle within about half a second .... straight back down again...

 

[Davet]

If you see the flag go up then why aren't you blowing the whistle?

 

[crossref]

If you see the flag go up then why aren't you blowing the whistle?

I do !

but sometimes these TJ's are so far from the action they aren't even in my field of view, I am watching the winger's feet best I can see them, to make my own judgement and simultaneously watching the TJ with those eyes I have in the back of my head ....

you'd think a fifteen year old would be old enough and brave enough to be a capable TJ, wouldn't you?

not always!

 

[Davet]

OK - understood - maybe have a word with them before the game... though you probably are. But sometimes 15 or 50 makes little difference.

 

[Dixie]

jdeagro, all good comments above. As long as it takes for the 1st one (despite the evidence of your eyes and those of the spectators and players, the game is not actually taking place, because the ball is dead and has not been resuscitated). 2nd one - no big. It comes under Rule 1 of AR-ing; don't make the ref look a twat.

Going back to the first, perhaps you weren't quite there with the flag when the player went into touch, so the ref's quick glance up failed to spot a flagging AR (do you see what I just did there?)? There will be many occasions - usually from kicks - when this happens; you may want to think about shouting TOUCH as well as flagging if you know you aren't where you'd like to have been.

 

[crossref]

OK - understood - maybe have a word with them before the game... though you probably are. But sometimes 15 or 50 makes little difference.

I do -- in general I think it's a great thing if one of the subs is prepared to TJ, and at U15 they are old enough (and generally they are fine) but some do need some coaching, and I am happy with that, it's good for them, and better for me than no TJ at all, and they are getting better

 

[OB..]

1) The first occurrence was the ball carrier was tackled (just barely) into touch but a ruck formed quickly and ball was taken out quickly and whipped out wide to the opposite side of the field, which resulted in the referee not seeing my flag go up. After about half a minute from when I originally put my flag up and the ball was advanced a good 10 meters or so, I put my flag down.

In the Varsity match many years ago, when the previous year's captains ran the lines, Oxford scored a try only to discover that their own TJ was patiently standing on the far side touchline with his flag raised. Try disallowed.

 

[crossref]

In the Varsity match many years ago, when the previous year's captains ran the lines, Oxford scored a try only to discover that their own TJ was patiently standing on the far side touchline with his flag raised. Try disallowed.

yes, people often quote that as great integrity -- but it wasn't really: although the ref missed it, about 20,000 people DID see his flag go up ... there was no way he could have put it down again.

 

[OB..]

yes, people often quote that as great integrity -- but it wasn't really: although the ref missed it, about 20,000 people DID see his flag go up ... there was no way he could have put it down again.

You are too cynical.

 

[crossref]

:smile: even at u14 friendlies spectators notice if a flag goes down. (put it back up!, they say)

 

[jdeagro]

Thanks for all the great advice. I actually would have assumed the second scenario was a bigger deal than the first, but I learned something. I'll ensure to be more assertive holding my flag up (and perhaps yelling touch) next time someone find their way into touch.

 

[didds]

i find most TJ flags give a satisfying "thruppp!" as you smartly bring them up, with the flag cloth battling with the air current - it makes quite a noise when done well

didds

 

[jdeagro]

i find most TJ flags give a satisfying "thruppp!" as you smartly bring them up, with the flag cloth battling with the air current - it makes quite a noise when done well

didds

Yes, I do believe I know what noise you're referring to. Unfortunately we didn't have official flags for this match, and instead used brightly colored tshirts.

 

[Dickie E]

jdeagro, one of you future challenges will be when you flag for foul play which, unlike scrum positions, is your responsibility. All sorts of questions will go through your mind: was it really a dangerous tackle, what was the offender's number, did the ref see it and decide to play on, etc.

Let us know how that goes - not if, but when.

 

[didds]

Yes, I do believe I know what noise you're referring to. Unfortunately we didn't have official flags for this match, and instead used brightly colored tshirts.

you could blow raspberries?

didds

 

[Dixie]

Yes, I do believe I know what noise you're referring to. Unfortunately we didn't have official flags for this match, and instead used brightly colored tshirts.

Robbie has an article on the importance of a smart referee turnout. If your Society doesn't issue flags (few do) but nevertheless expects you to undertake a role requiring a flag, you should really pop down to JD sports and buy yourself a £10 set of footie flags. That way, you don't give the impression of being wholly amateur and incompetent despite your training. Depending on your financial circumstances (and those of your Society) I leave it up to you whether you bear the cost yourself, or alternatively add a few miles to each appointment so the expense flows back to where it should really lie.