How the urban Myth's get spread!!

[duncanb]

As seen on bbc sport web site ask the ref section.

Q: When a player drops to the ground to secure a loose ball, must the opposition let him get to his feet before tackling him? Frequently I see a player bravely go down on the ball, only to be jumped on by opponents and then penalised for holding on!
David, Sydney

Yes, the opposition must let a player get to his feet first, but remember that the player who goes to ground must try to get up immediately too.

Ever wonder why we get shouted at so much by the players and crowd alike, won't tell who the wise and wonderful sage is who was in the hot seat but he will in NZ in September.

Duncanb

 

[crossref]

I think this is a greyer area than this forum generally allows
- must you let a player to his feet before you can tackle him? .. well yes - if you want to tackle him, he must be on his feet, else you'll concede penalty for diving on him while he is the ground.
- but what you can do immediately, without needing to let him up, is not tackle him.. but you can try and grab the ball...

 

[duncanb]

: What do you deem acceptable when a player is holding the ball on the ground?

It appears that some players get more time on the floor than others before a penalty is given.
Craig Duffin

A: Craig, the game is played on your feet and once a player has gone to ground, he must release the ball to a player who is on his feet.

In a tackle situation, the tackler must release the ball carrier and get to his feet before he can contest for the ball.

As long as a referee is consistent in his application throughout the match then that is acceptable.

And here is the same question asked the previous week answered by a sage not going to NZ in September much better answer .


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[jeff]

This as been a myth for such a long time now and im fed up of the calls from coach's and spectators still going on today.
The only thing a player on his feet cant do is to go off his feet himself.
If he places his hand on the player on the ground then that player would be deemed held and cant get back up with the ball but can use his 2 other options place the ball or pass it backwads to a team mate.
The best call call should be play the ball and that goes for both players.
So as we all know you dont have to let the player up but you cant go off your feet yourself.

 

[TheBFG]

I think this is a greyer area than this forum generally allows
- must you let a player to his feet before you can tackle him? .. well yes - if you want to tackle him, he must be on his feet, else you'll concede penalty for diving on him while he is the ground.
- but what you can do immediately, without needing to let him up, is not tackle him.. but you can try and grab the ball...

You maybe on dodgy ground there, I think you'll find all refs on this site agree that you can't dive on a player on the floor! What the general public call for in "you've got to let him up" is where the difference is. As long as the player on his feet tries to play the ball and not the prone player there is no issue, maybe now the time when "player on his feet is king" really still applies:wink:

 

[OB..]

This as been a myth for such a long time now and im fed up of the calls from coach's and spectators still going on today.
The only thing a player on his feet cant do is to go off his feet himself.
If he places his hand on the player on the ground then that player would be deemed held and cant get back up with the ball but can use his 2 other options place the ball or pass it backwads to a team mate.
The best call call should be play the ball and that goes for both players.
So as we all know you dont have to let the player up but you cant go off your feet yourself.

I agree, and that is essentially the ruling I got from my RDO many moons ago.

The particular case involved a player who fell on the ball right near the touchline and was dragged into touch. "No problem, though it would have made more sense to go for the ball and probably earn a penalty for holding on."

 

[crossref]

yes, I am completely at one with the forum on what the Laws say. I agree.

but when people use the colloquial phrase 'you've got to let him up' what do they really mean? If people mean
- you've got to let him up before you can tackle him, that would be true
if they mean
- you cannot prevent him from getting up, that would be true as well.

If they mean 'you've got to stand and watch while he gets to his feet' that would, of course, be wrong.

But meanwhile I do agree "Play the Ball" is an excellent and clear call for the ref to make, I use it.

 

[andyscott]

you do have to let him up, see told you

 

[jeff]

Crossref) You can prevent a player on the ground frm getting up,
if the player is on the ground and you straddle that player one leg over him as he's underneath you then he will have trouble getting to his feet as you are above him. and its all legal as you havnt gone off your feet.
And if you you place a hand on the player who is on the floor then that player is deemed held and cannot get up with the ball and any effort by that player to regain to his feet whilst being deemed held would be a penalty against.

 

[Davet]

And if you you place a hand on the player who is on the floor then that player is deemed held and cannot get up with the ball and any effort by that player to regain to his feet whilst being deemed held would be a penalty against

Although if he releases the ball and then stands up he is surely OK?

 

[jeff]

Yes davet) but of course

 

[duncanb]

My feelings are here we have a BBC website with duty officals answering questions from the public.
Over two weekends 2 people have basically asked the same question.
Week one Nigel Owens replies you have to let him up.
Week two Hugh Watkins replies man on his feet is king.
14.1/14.2 has been debated widely on this forum site but we can hardly be surprised when we here the shouts every week from players and spectators about the man on the floor and am now of the opion that I should just not even bother with anymore debate on subject as nearly all have there own concept about player on the floor and no amount of debate will ever change their minds on the subject.
The only solution would be a law change/variation to 14.1/14.2 that may make people become aware of 'a new Law' but I can see no way in practical terms to do this other than you have to 'let the man get up'.
Till then I will just smile when I am told 'he should have let him up' as I continue to whistle.

 

[Adam]

Where is this BBC 'ask the ref' section?

 

[OB..]

Where is this BBC 'ask the ref' section?

In the past - more specifically 2006. The question referenced in the OP is here

 

[Bunniksider]

From the BBC link above:

Q: In the past we have seen players touching the ball against the post to score a try. My question is, how far up the post (vertically) does the try line extend
Mike Price-James, Winsford

Good question, but the ball must make contact with the post and the ground the same time. Here is a question for you now: Name four ways you can score a try without crossing the try line. I look forward to seeing your answers.

Grounding against the post and a penalty try, what about the other two?

 

[ianh5979]

1 is spectator playing ball in goal when 1st player there will be an attacker other is ball hitting referee in goal when attackers in possesion?

 

[Adam]

Be in touch-in-goal and touching the ball (which is on the floor in in-goal) down.

Ball is kicked through and touches a non-player in in-goal and a try was likely to have been scored?

 

[B52 REF]

reaching out immediately from in FOP and placing ball ON tryline.

 

[Davet]

Attacking ball carrier running into ref and then dropping ball.

 

[crossref]

Crossref) You can prevent a player on the ground frm getting up,
if the player is on the ground and you straddle that player one leg over him as he's underneath you then he will have trouble getting to his feet as you are above him. and its all legal as you havnt gone off your feet.
And if you you place a hand on the player who is on the floor then that player is deemed held and cannot get up with the ball and any effort by that player to regain to his feet whilst being deemed held would be a penalty against.

In both cases I think I would want to the see the standing player making some effort to play the ball .. otherwise the moment player on the ground releases and tries to get up, I might penalise the player who is straddling him / holding him down, who is playing a player without the ball.

I think the laws are clear but I think that the plain english expresion 'you've got to let him up' is ambiguous, and may in some respects be right, and in others wrong