[Law] How would you deal with this one?

TheBFG


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https://youtu.be/2zq6B0dLi68

If you want to go to the end of the clip (1:05 on the youtube clock), let me just tell you that Green 13 has already been YC'd for a dangerous tackle......

What would you do about the actions of Foden, trying to mislead the ref?
 
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Phil E


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Is this the tip tackle you are referring to?

Past the horizontal, if he hadn't put his hand out he would have landed on his head, and the 13 just let him go without any regard to his safety.

For me it should have been a straight Red.
 

CrouchTPEngage


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Agree with the ref in the video. Didnt land on neck or head. Neither a dangerous height. Only a YC for me.

I may have thought about another YC for the player ( Foden I think ? ) who appears to be trying to deceive the ref into saying"It was me !" if I thought he was attempting to mislead me to avoid a red for his teammate. !
Interesting one !
 

Pegleg

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Agreed Phil Second was a straight red.
 

CrouchTPEngage


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Agreed Phil Second was a straight red.
Why straight red please ? Could you take us through your thought process here ?
I thought we are now supposed to be outcome based ? He didnt land on "head or neck area"
Cheers , in advance
 

Phil E


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Why straight red please ? Could you take us through your thought process here ?
I thought we are now supposed to be outcome based ? He didnt land on "head or neck area"
Cheers , in advance

He would have landed on his head if he hadn't put his own hand out to stop himself. There was a clarification from World Rugby somewhere that we should disregard the hand in such cases. Add the fact that the tackler (sic) just dropped him with no regard for his safety whatsoever and you have a Red (for me). I realise others may disagree.
 

Pegleg

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Answered for me.
 

didds

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I'm with Phil and others with the RC. Seems to me this entire head=red, back=yellow is somewhat missing the point. The action is what is tryung to vbe avoided - the colour is purely relying on luck or even the tackled players own reactions for "saving" the tackler.

The 2016 Eng v Arg game was a perfect example of this albeit wrt ploaying men in the air rather than tip tackles. Mid air collision by daly, and on may ended up with different colours purely because Daly's impact ended up with the Arg player landing on his head/neck, whereas May's reaction meant he got a foot to ground first and saved the Arg player.

As Ian mentioned elsewhere recently, WR has tied itself ion knots over all of this is and is still trying to work out how to achieve some sense - but won;t backtrack. So we get nuances on nuances on nuances instead.


didds
 

TheBFG


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Oh no, no issue with the tackle and yellow or red would have the same effect.

It was the part where Foden was trying to claim that it was him that made the tackle!!!!!
 

Pegleg

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Watched it without sound . I'd consider a YC for him!
 

Taff


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According to the Directive (which you rarely hear mentioned these days) the tip tackle alone is a :norc:

According to the Directive ANY tip tackle is an offence and if

  1. the player is dropped (I think the wording says "without regard for his safety") or
  2. speared into the ground
it's a compulsory :norc:

This is what Warburton got carded for in the World Cup Semi Final , because the dropped the French player.
 
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crossref


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I don't think the tip tackle directive is still a live document. All traces of it were removed from the WR website some years ago...
 

Richard smith


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Yet another instance where some sort of direction from WR would be nice
 

Taff


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I don't think the tip tackle directive is still a live document. All traces of it were removed from the WR website some years ago...
I remember you saying, but apparently it was quoted in a very recent citing.

And I'm working on the assumption that it's still active until somebody in authority tells me different. :biggrin:
 

Andrew1974


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I’d go for a second yellow, as the ref did.

Player landed on his side, if he had not put his arm out I am not sure he would have landed on his head, may well have been his shoulder, and whilst he was dropped, it was from a very low height....I can see how others may get to Red but for me, doesn’t quite get there, but is reasonably marginal.
 

crossref


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I remember you saying, but apparently it was quoted in a very recent citing.

And I'm working on the assumption that it's still active until somebody in authority tells me different. :biggrin:

Have you got a copy to refer to ?
It actually makes quite interesting reading . I should look it up again but from memory one problem with it is that the definition of a tip tackle used is no longer the same as the description in the Law.

In the RWC you will recall that whenever it was cited the result was that the tackle in question didn't fit the definition of a tip tackle and the offender was charged with a lesser offence
 

Phil E


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Oh no, no issue with the tackle and yellow or red would have the same effect.

It was the part where Foden was trying to claim that it was him that made the tackle!!!!!

I'm not convinced that's what happened.
The referee thinks it was 23 and says so, the TMO says no, it was 13 and they go to check.
I think Foden who was 23 is saying "that's me, i'm 23", rather than "it was me".
 

didds

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Foley was smiling and joking with the oppo #8 - it certainly didn't like him berating the ref!

didds
 
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TheBFG


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I think he was trying to claim that it was him as he didn't want his team mate to get a second YC?

What would have been funny would have been the ref going RC! I'm sure Foden wouldn't have been smiling about that one :biggrin:
 

Pegleg

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Have you got a copy to refer to ?
It actually makes quite interesting reading . I should look it up again but from memory one problem with it is that the definition of a tip tackle used is no longer the same as the description in the Law.


Can you say how the law book defines / in the past defined a "tip", or indeed a "spear", tackle?
 
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