Illegal Grounding/Double Movement

[OB..]

I'm in the uncomfortable position of disagreeing with both OB and Ian_Cook. First time for that. The law is clear, the tackled player can promote the ball forward.There are no restrictions or clarifications on that.

The fact that it is legal for him to do so is very different from saying that nobody is allowed to stop him.

We all kow that when a player falls on the ball it is legal for him to get up with it, but the oposition do NOT have to wait for him to do so. In this case 22.4 (f) specifically provides one way of stopping him, so it is not an absolute right.

It is also clear that the tackler cannot prevent that until he releases and gets back on his feet.

The point at issue is that BOTH players are required to act immediately. Given that, the tackled player is not in a position to reach out immediately - he can only do so if the tackler releases first, but there is no requirement in law for the tackler to do so. The remiaining option is simply to take his hands off the ball and get up.

If if we then introduce an artificial measure of 'is it too close to the goal line?' then we need also to consider 'was it Jacques Theroux or Martin Bayfield'. At a metre out one would be stretching every sinew, the other would have the ball tucked into the elbow and just falling on to the line. That is a recipie for disaster.

You exaggerate. The referee must use his judgement, as he must on many other occasions.

 

[Blackberry]

I have followed this thread with mounting concern at a few of the postings.
First off proximity to the try line has no effect on the speed and the sequence of the tackle events. To alter how you ref here will cause confusion, friction and may cause safety issues. To say that a tackler near the try line can be given extra powers simply because he really really wants them bears no scrutiny at all.

 

[menace]

I'm more concerned that WE are over-analysing the laws in an area of the game that is not in trouble. IMO, some are looking for a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist. AFAIK there is no player, coach or spectator backlash in this area of the game, either at the elite level or grassroots. Ok..occasionally there will be a 50/50 call on such an event that causes consternation but in the main everyone seems to accept it as one of those judgment calls without raising the law meaning to the nth degree. :shrug:

Ps. I think all we've managed to do is confuse the hell out of the OP, Thepercy! Poor bugger must be having cold sweats figuring out what he needs to award when it happens in his game!

 

[Pegleg]

Agreed. Call it as you see it justify your call to your assessor and, if needed, agree to disagree. I intend to raise it at our next Society meeting to see if we can agree a consistent approach across our area so that clubs will understand what our refs will and will not accept.

 

[OB..]

Agreed. Call it as you see it justify your call to your assessor and, if needed, agree to disagree. I intend to raise it at our next Society meeting to see if we can agree a consistent approach across our area so that clubs will understand what our refs will and will not accept.

I will not be following suit. I already have one point of law on the agenda (when is the ball out of a ruck?), and this one is far too academic.

 

[Phil E]

Agreed. Call it as you see it justify your call to your assessor and, if needed, agree to disagree. I intend to raise it at our next Society meeting to see if we can agree a consistent approach across our area so that clubs will understand what our refs will and will not accept.

But your profile on the left says you aren't in a Society?
Which one are you with?

 

[Pegleg]

Llanelli

 

[Pegleg]

I will not be following suit. I already have one point of law on the agenda (when is the ball out of a ruck?), and this one is far too academic.

There's just been clarification of that one. This is "far too academic"? How rare are tackles near the line where this situation could occur? Hardly academic. Then again I'm there making the call not judging the call.

 

[OB..]

There's just been clarification of that one.

An unhelpful one, that has been discussed on here.

This is "far too academic"? How rare are tackles near the line where this situation could occur? Hardly academic. Then again I'm there making the call not judging the call.

The essence of the problem is that it is a ball-and-all tackle. Most tackles near the line do not restrict the ball carrier's arms. When a wrap tackle is achieved the likelihood is that the pair will either end up well short (no problem) or both crash into in-goal (no problem because the tackle law does not apply). There is a very narrow windown when this can cause a problem, and as I have said before, I have nevef actually seen it arise.

 

[Pegleg]

I thought it clear enough.

Regarding the second I yellowed a player last season for not releasing in such a situation. His coach had no problem with the call. He felt the players action were cynical and would have expected a card if his side had been the ones attacking. I would like to know whether my society supports my view. It may be a narrow window but any such incident is likely to be critical.

 

[OB..]

I thought it clear enough.

Regarding the second I yellowed a player last season for not releasing in such a situation. His coach had no problem with the call. He felt the players action were cynical and would have expected a card if his side had been the ones attacking. I would like to know whether my society supports my view. It may be a narrow window but any such incident is likely to be critical.

I will be interested in the rationale.

 

[Browner]

I thought it clear enough.

Regarding the second I yellowed a player last season for not releasing in such a situation. His coach had no problem with the call. He felt the players action were cynical and would have expected a card if his side had been the ones attacking. I would like to know whether my society supports my view. It may be a narrow window but any such incident is likely to be critical.

Is it possible to be adjudged as 'cynical' for not releasing 25cm from your own goal line, when to do so leaves the opposition free to reach out & score.....I'm not sure it is?

 

[RobLev]

I thought it clear enough.

Regarding the second I yellowed a player last season for not releasing in such a situation. His coach had no problem with the call. He felt the players action were cynical and would have expected a card if his side had been the ones attacking. I would like to know whether my society supports my view. It may be a narrow window but any such incident is likely to be critical.

No Penalty Try?