In Goal Anxiety revisited.

[Simonsky]

Thought I was getting clearer about InGoal stuff but discover that I'm not-so, a couple of questions:

1) If ball kicked in by attackers but deflects off defender(who is In Goal to go over DB line what's the logic? Defender did not clear the ball intentionally so, presumably, a 22 cannot be awarded-can't seem to find applicable bit of Law book!

2) If ball is kicked into In-Goal by attackers and it deflects of an offside attacker in-goal to go dead then will the choice be: penalty from place of kick/defending 5M scrum?

Groundhog Days with the LoTG!

 

[Dixie]

Simonsky, in-goal is a pig. Stick with itrolleyes: ); you'll get there.

The starting point is: who put it in-goal. Therafter, it is the fact that it goes dead that counts, not so much who makes it dead (tries excepted, of course). SO: Red kicks the ball into in-goal, where it bounces off a Blue defender into touch in goal: 22m drop-out. Red kicks the ball into in-goal, where it bounces off a Red attacker into touch in goal: 22m drop-out. In both cases, Red put the ball into in-goal, where it was made dead without a try being scored. The outcome would ahve been the same in the event of a defensive grounding.

Blue kicks towards in-goal, it hits a Red player while still in the field of play, bounces into in-goal and then goes beyond the DBL or into TIG: 5m Blue scrum. The Red player put the ball into in-goal (albeit unintentionally) where it was made dead without a try being scored.

 

[Toby Warren]

Simple one liner - 'it's how it enters that matters not how it leaves'

 

[crossref]

2) If ball is kicked into In-Goal by attackers and it deflects of an offside attacker in-goal to go dead then will the choice be: penalty from place of kick/defending 5M scrum?

why wouldn't you award a penalty to the defending team for offside, with choice of PK on 5m line or scrum where the ball was kicked?

 

[Greg Collins]

"How did it get there?" (in-goal) that is the ONLY factor that determines the outcome regardless of what the other 30 refs on the pitch have to say about it.

 

[OB..]

why wouldn't you award a penalty to the defending team for offside, with choice of PK on 5m line or scrum where the ball was kicked?

You should - except that the mark for the PK can be in in-goal.
Law 21.2 (b)
When a penalty or free kick is awarded to the defending team in in-goal, the mark for the
kick is at the place of infringement

 

[crossref]

which seems to be contradicted by Law 22.16 (!)

22.16 INFRINGEMENTS IN IN-GOAL
All infringements in the in-goal are treated as if they had taken place in the field of play.
A knock-on or a throw forward in the in-goal results in a 5-metre scrum, opposite the place of infringement.

Sanction: For an infringement, the mark for a penalty kick or free kick cannot be in the ingoal.
When a penalty kick or free kick is awarded for an infringement in the In-goal, the mark for the kick is in the field of play, 5 metres from the goal line, opposite the place of infringement.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

You should - except that the mark for the PK can be in in-goal.
Law 21.2 (b)
When a penalty or free kick is awarded to the defending team in in-goal, the mark for the
kick is at the place of infringement

Not in my lawbook , 2009

Has this changed ?

 

[Taff]

Thought I was getting clearer about InGoal stuff but discover that I'm not ...

Simonsky, I've made a revised table for about 10 in-goal scenarios. It helped me immensely, and I test myself on it regularly. If you want, I can e-mail it to you. Not sure if I can include it in the post, as I think I've gone over my allocated memory allowance.

 

[OB..]

Not in my lawbook , 2009

Has this changed ?

Yes it has.

 

[Phil E]

Isn't it a case of:
Defending penalty at place of infringement.
Attacking penalty at 5m line.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Not in my lawbook , 2009

Has this changed ?

Yes it has.

Thanks, my bad

Now, what if they take a scrum in lieu of PK ? Uh Oh, 22.13 I think

 

[Simonsky]

Let me get this clear: if ball is kicked in goal by attacker and deflects to dead by (offside) attacker it is STILL a 22 because kicked in by attacker and not offside in open play?

 

[Dickie E]

Let me get this clear: if ball is kicked in goal by attacker and deflects to dead by (offside) attacker it is STILL a 22 because kicked in by attacker and not offside in open play?

I wouldn't go that way. An offence (accidental offside since attacker kicked ball into team-mate) occurred before ball went dead. I'd go with 5 mtere scrum - defenders' feed.

 

[Dickie E]

We've been here before so be reminded that law 22.7(d) says:

"If a defending player threw or took the ball into the in-goal, and a defending player grounded it, and there has been no infringement, play is restarted by a 5-metre scrum. The position of the scrum is in line with where the ball has been touched down. The attacking side throws in the ball."

The phrase "threw or took" suggests intent so (AIUI) an unintentional deflection doesn't count.

 

[OB..]

A player can be offside in in-goal.

If the referee decides it was accidental he will award a scrum. If not, he awards a PK.

 

[Dickie E]

A player can be offside in in-goal.

If the referee decides it was accidental he will award a scrum. If not, he awards a PK.

So the question that will be on everyone's fingertips:

In the case of accidental offside, does the ref award the scrum or (in the spirit of advantage) award the drop out after the ball rolls into TiG?

 

[OB..]

We already know that a knock-on does NOT result in a drop out. Seems the best precedent to follow. Accidental offside followed by touching down in in-goal would surely be a scrum?

(Can't say I have ever seen this situation.)

 

[chopper15]

This thread, as with the recent 'playing the ball on the ground' debate . . and many others, would surely benefit from a brief summation . . . if only for my sake?:hap:

Could one of the more experienced refs, perhaps, step in when the discussion appears to be running out of steam, with an appraisal/consensual summary?

 

[ddjamo]

11.6 ACCIDENTAL OFFSIDE
(a) When an offside player cannot avoid being touched by the ball or by a team-mate carrying it, the player is accidentally offside. If the player’s team gains no advantage from this, play continues. If the player’s team gains an advantage, a scrum is formed with the opposing team throwing in the ball.