[Law] Incorrectly taken conversion

[DocY]

I put on my (unofficial) assessor's hat on Sunday to go and watch a new referee in an under 18s girls' match and we had one incident I genuinely wasn't sure about.

A very one-sided game and not long into the second half about eight tries had been scored without a single successful conversion so greens (the dominant team) were letting anyone who wanted to try a conversion have a go.

So they gave the ball to a second row who duly tried to punt it through the posts (and missed).

My question is: what should the referee do?

In this case he just went back for the restart (which I thought was the best decision in this case) but what would you do if it were a close game and the kick actually went over? Just disallow it or request it be re-taken? I can't find any guidance in law.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Law 8.8 - The kick is disallowed

However, I would take into account the knowledge etc of the players. Young kids and or some adults learning the game need a bit of coaching so manage it with sympathy and empathy.

 

[Flish]

If it's U18 girls at the level I had the other week (ended with a 8 try losing margin, my home club) then I understand the challenge. I had similar but it was on the restart drop kicks. First one from the losing team was correct, second was incorrect (but tried) so it got pinged, after that I just let them go, some where blatant punts, I called play on as long as they went 10, and explained at half time that I wasn't concerned as long as they had a go at the drop kick.

If it were for points though I think I'd have to say no, maybe allow another go, there's a difference between a restart that gives possession away regardless and points on the board.

You do need a lot of empathy in these games, and I often hold a dominant team to a different standard in the second half to make sure both teams get something positive and learn from the game even if the scoreboard doesn't reflect it.

 

[Taff]

My feeling is that it's just a unsuccessful conversion and the ball is dead, so restart the game at the centre.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Michael Green in The Art of Course Rugby (Google it young 'uns) recommended a scoring system that included 5 points for a punt goal!

 

[crossref]

Punted conversion is a missed conversion
Punted restart or drop out ..well if it's a kid's game and they didn't understand then by all means take it again, but never just play on. How would they learn ?

 

[Pinky]

Punted conversion is a missed conversion
Punted restart or drop out ..well if it's a kid's game and they didn't understand then by all means take it again, but never just play on. How would they learn ?

While that is correct CR, remember that the team kicking off is the one who has just been scored against and if they are not able to drop kick in the game, then you don't really want to be handing possession straight to the opposition instead of some form of credible restart kick.

 

[crossref]

I don't agree .
We are not taking about seven year olds
What age do drop kicks start nowadays ? U13.

Of course they can find someone in the team to do a dk. Do you think the coach hasnt covered that ?

 

[Camquin]

Finding enough girls to start a match is challenge enough.
Generally by U18 you can find one on each side can sort of drop kick.

 

[Flish]

I don't agree .
We are not taking about seven year olds
What age do drop kicks start nowadays ? U13.

Of course they can find someone in the team to do a dk. Do you think the coach hasnt covered that ?

Erm, you must ref in a blessed part of the country, up here more than half the squad (12 aside as it happens because couldn't manage 15) have less than 1 years experience playing rugby (so yes, the equivalent of a 7 or 8 year old lad maybe - PS: they can't drop kick either), so literally they don't have someone on the squad who can drop kick. And in an age where actively trying to recruit more players why on earth would an official keep picking fault and punishing them (as they would see it) for something they just can't do? Especially when it has no material affect on the game. They won't come back. By letting them try, and not punishing them if they fail they at least get some practice

Our U13 girls squad has 10 by the way, that's considered pretty good regionally

 

[Flish]

Finding enough girls to start a match is challenge enough.
Generally by U18 you can find one on each side can sort of drop kick.

Normally yeah, but as above, if they can't why keep highlighting that. In the game I reference part of the mismatch was that the opposition had two girls that really could drop kick, to the extent they dropped all their conversions, yet they had less players and were borrowing.

The ethic up here is just to get a games on, and lots of clubs join forces to make a match day team, and by all accounts they have a good laugh doing it - we need to understand that and get our empathy in the right balance

 

[crossref]

I wasn't saying penalise them, I was saying do it again, or a different player can do it

A drop kick is pretty simple I just dont believe a team of u18 girls, in a game that has an appointed referee can't execute a drop kick

 

[Flish]

I wasn't saying penalise them, I was saying do it again, or a different player can do it

A drop kick is pretty simple I just dont believe a team of u18 girls, in a game that has an appointed referee can't execute a drop kick

It's true, and it's common, have had some pretty poor attempts from adult ladies too, might be regional but that's where we are in the North East (and my club has a premiership ladies team, doesn't mean grass roots follows). It's improving now that we have support from the RFU to encourage girls rugby, but in reality these U18 girls in the majority have only been playing a year or two

 

[crossref]

But it takes about 10 mins to learn to drop kick, and its the very first thing that happens , in every game .. are you saying they have spent two season starting each game with a punt , and every ref in every game has let it go ?

 

[didds]

A drop kick is pretty simple I just dont believe a team of u18 girls, in a game that has an appointed referee can't execute a drop kick

they'd have to if only to start at least one of the halves.

didds

 

[Flish]

But it takes about 10 mins to learn to drop kick, andbits the very first thing that happens , in every game .. are you saying they have spent two season starting each game with a punt , and every ref in every game has let it go ?

Get down your local club and understand for yourself, but in a squad of 12 I'd hazard a guess there's an awful lot of challenges in training (scrum, line outs, any drills involving numbers), I'd hazard a guess kicking doesn't always bubble to the top of the list!

Either way, if they haven't got someone that can kick why worry, as long as the game is safe and they get some experience from it then crack on for me.

And no, not every ref lets it go, which is part of the challenge, some of the players have hated those games, been over officious and unhelpful, and players have not come back, this I know from talking to the coaches pre and post. Unlike junior boys games I always ask both coaches pre match as to what they want to achieve from the game, it's a different genre and needs to be treated so IMO

 

[crossref]

We are talking about 17/18 year olds , playing for their club , in a game against another club, with a Society appointed ref.

Of course they can manage a drop kick, between them.

 

[Camquin]

Unlike the boys, a lot ofthe girls start at U18 - so it could well be there first match.

And you are probably talking the 30 girls in the county who want to play rugby.
Or beyond I know Old Albanians had girls from Cambridgeshire and Huntingdonshire travelling over an hour to home games simply to find people to play with.

It is very much about getting whatever game going you can.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I wasn't saying penalise them, I was saying do it again, or a different player can do it

A drop kick is pretty simple I just dont believe a team of u18 girls, in a game that has an appointed referee can't execute a drop kick

All under 18 games are appointed here, even if it is their first game of rugby. You have to use a bit of common sense depending upon their ability level.

 

[crossref]

My common sense tells me that, between them, they could manage a drop kick .

Tbh I think you could take any completely random selection of 15 eighteen year olds and within two minutes have at least one of them able to perform a drop kick .. explaining the concept to a 18 year old would require one sentence and a demonstration