[Law] Incorrectly taken free kick

madgagoo

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Ball left hands but bounced on knee; play on or scrum to oppo?
 

Flish


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Context, low level no pressure scenario in their own half, probably play on and have a word at next opportunity. League / cup game, on the 5, trying to go quick - peep, bring it back and do it properly. I can’t imagine a scenario where I would actually penalise, maybe I should, but I only ref at up to L8 currently.
 

Dickie E


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I would never ever play on. Unless a repeat infringement I'd require a retake
 

Flish


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I would never ever play on. Unless a repeat infringement I'd require a retake

Never? Up to u14 we’re supposed to play on if not material in RFU land so definitely a teaching point, but if just a lazy tap it’s probably not the most important thing going on
 

Dickie E


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Never? Up to u14 we’re supposed to play on if not material in RFU land so definitely a teaching point, but if just a lazy tap it’s probably not the most important thing going on

with all due respect to RFU, that is a step too far IMO. What if he'd used his elbow instead of his knee ... play on?
 

Jarrod Burton


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with all due respect to RFU, that is a step too far IMO. What if he'd used his elbow instead of his knee ... play on?

Agreed, pull it up, explain and retake. How else do kids learn the law set and how to play? Our U12's have the ability and understanding to take quick taps/free kicks properly and we are a comparative rugby wasteland!
 

chbg


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Never? Up to u14 we’re supposed to play on if not material in RFU land so definitely a teaching point, but if just a lazy tap it’s probably not the most important thing going on

So that's why they come up to U15 trying it on!!
 

Flish


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Mine don’t, they know what they’re supposed to do, but a lot do, especially dual code players. My point being that you don’t have to stop the game to correct then, let them play and have a word. If they keep on doing, then act differently. You can get the same result.
 

crossref


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There as been a Law Book Change !

[LAWS]Taking a penalty or free-kick

A penalty or free-kick must be taken without delay.
Any player from the non-offending team may take it, other than for a free-kick awarded for a mark.
The kicker must use the ball that was in play unless the referee decides it is defective.
The kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball.
The kicker may kick the ball in any direction.
Other than the placer at a place-kick, the kicker’s team must remain behind the ball until it has been kicked.
The ball must be kicked a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark. Once the kick has been successfully taken the kicker may play the ball again.
Sanction: Scrum.[/LAWS]

A sanction - Scrum - has been added !

The Law books from 2017-2020 omitted that sanction, the new 2021 Law book has snuck it in.

I do wish they would bring back the old practice of highlighting all changes, rather than leaving it up to us to notice them.
 
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Dickie E


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My point being that you don’t have to stop the game to correct then, let them play and have a word.

what other requirements do you overlook?
 

Marc Wakeham


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Surely Flish is not overlooking any requirements. He is refereeing as instructed by the age group regulations.
 

Jarrod Burton


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There as been a Law Book Change !

[LAWS]Taking a penalty or free-kick

A penalty or free-kick must be taken without delay.
Any player from the non-offending team may take it, other than for a free-kick awarded for a mark.
The kicker must use the ball that was in play unless the referee decides it is defective.
The kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball.
The kicker may kick the ball in any direction.
Other than the placer at a place-kick, the kicker’s team must remain behind the ball until it has been kicked.
The ball must be kicked a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark. Once the kick has been successfully taken the kicker may play the ball again.
Sanction: Scrum.[/LAWS]

A sanction - Scrum - has been added !

The Law books from 2017-2020 omitted that sanction, the new 2021 Law book has snuck it in.

I do wish they would bring back the old practice of highlighting all changes, rather than leaving it up to us to notice them.

Who feeds the scrum? How can the IRB mess up this sort of stuff time and time and time again?
 

Flish


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what other requirements do you overlook?

?

I’m not overlooking, I’m simply pointing out that there is a scenario where play on is an option, as encouraged by our Union, different strokes for different folks maybe, but the scenario does exist
 

Balones

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As far as I could see both women’s internationals at the weekend had free kicks where the ball did not leave the hands.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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This is a regular occurrence up here in RL land.
Many cross code players simply do not know the laws.
I ref at L 7. First time it happens, I never award a scrum but order a retake allowing the defence to then be properly set
Usually players are trying to be positive and speed up the game, to be pedantic serves no purpose and will only p*ss players off.
If the player makes the same error again then it is scrum time.
Similar scenario when a player takes a quick tap behind your back.
Just blow the whistle and say "sorry guys, the game can't restart until I see the ball played", they soon learn.
 

crossref


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This is a regular occurrence up here in RL land.
Many cross code players simply do not know the laws.
I ref at L 7. First time it happens, I never award a scrum but order a retake allowing the defence to then be properly set
Usually players are trying to be positive and speed up the game, to be pedantic serves no purpose and will only p*ss players off.
If the player makes the same error again then it is scrum time.
Similar scenario when a player takes a quick tap behind your back.
Just blow the whistle and say "sorry guys, the game can't restart until I see the ball played", they soon learn.

for the last four years I have made them take it again, per the Law Book
now that there is a sanction in the law book, I'll give a scrum, per the Law Book

(adult rugby)
 

Dickie E


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for the last four years I have made them take it again, per the Law Book
now that there is a sanction in the law book, I'll give a scrum, per the Law Book

(adult rugby)

but kneeing the ball is not a kick so the player that does so hasn't transgressed any of the 7 requirements in the yellow box. It's the same as taking the FK in the wrong location.
 

Dickie E


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Surely Flish is not overlooking any requirements. He is refereeing as instructed by the age group regulations.

OK. Let me rephrase. What other requirements has the age group regulations instructed you to ignore? Or is it left up to the referee to pick what is & isn't material?
 

Arabcheif

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OK. Let me rephrase. What other requirements has the age group regulations instructed you to ignore? Or is it left up to the referee to pick what is & isn't material?

Age Grade variations are there to encourage positive play, which in turn increases enjoyment at the young level. Then as they get older, more recognisable skills are introduced, such as the tackle, ruck/maul and then scrums and line outs are gradually introduced. Unless you're suggesting that a 4 year old is capable of safely tackling in a game environment.

Plus isn't it always up to the ref to decide what is material?
 

crossref


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but kneeing the ball is not a kick so the player that does so hasn't transgressed any of the 7 requirements in the yellow box. It's the same as taking the FK in the wrong location.

I see what you are saying, but I think that's the wrong reading of the Law, I think kneeing the ball is covered by

[LAWS]The ball must be kicked a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark. Once the kick has been successfully taken the kicker may play the ball again.
Sanction: Scrum.[/LAWS]

it wasn't kicked, it was kneed - so scrum
 
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