Increasing lack of respect?

Drift


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I have refereed 3 games this season where either the whole (losing) team and coaches, or the vast majority of them, have refused to shake my hand after a game.

Why are you initiating this? I am more than happy to shake the hands of players and coaches if they want to and they come up to me, but I would never initiate it.
 

Drift


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I usually get two chances to shake hands as the tunnel is formed where visitors walk through first then as a ref I walk through both teams etc.
But why?
 

Drift


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I'm intrigued - what prompted you to stop going through the tunnel?

I'd assume because he realised the tunnel is for players and not officials?
 

Drift


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I tend to see these traditions (including teams lining up on halfway for handshake pre-kick off) more so at school games. If there is a tunnel at school game I will always participate as I see myself as an adult role model for these youngsters.

Adult games? Sometimes they happen, sometimes they don't. If the tone at the end of the game is positive, I'll participate (and ask the ARs/TJs to join me). I'll then sign paperwork, etc afterwards.

Those poor children!
 

DocY


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If a player is still being an a@$€ because he disagreed with a call then that is not my problem.

No, but it might be the next week's ref's problem. Not that going through the tunnel or not would likely change that, mind.
 

Paule23


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Why are you initiating this? I am more than happy to shake the hands of players and coaches if they want to and they come up to me, but I would never initiate it.

I am not actively initiating, but it is commonly accepted you shaw the hands of officials after the game. I put myself in a position to facilitate thi and it's obvious when a team actively avoids shaking your hand.
 

Drift


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I am not actively initiating, but it is commonly accepted you shaw the hands of officials after the game. I put myself in a position to facilitate thi and it's obvious when a team actively avoids shaking your hand.

Yeah but that's their choice not to come over. That's not:

have refused to shake my hand after a game.

This, to me, says you went over expecting a hand shake. I think you're getting a little upset/annoyed over nothing, if the players don't want to come and shake your hand they don't have to. If they move into actually abusing you then you can claim a lack of respect, but you can't claim if just because you didn't get a handshake.
 

Paule23


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Yeah but that's their choice not to come over. That's not:



This, to me, says you went over expecting a hand shake. I think you're getting a little upset/annoyed over nothing, if the players don't want to come and shake your hand they don't have to. If they move into actually abusing you then you can claim a lack of respect, but you can't claim if just because you didn't get a handshake.

You weren't there, how the heck can you opine on this?

if you don't think it's an issue, fine. But don't try and claim you know what happened and whether people actively avoided me or not.

in my view, respect for each other and respect for officials is a core tenant of the game of rugby. It is accepted practice to shake the hands of match officials at the end of the game, and to actively and obviously avoid this is petty, churlish and disrespectful.
 
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winchesterref


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You weren't there, how the heck can you opine on this?

if you don't think it's an issue, fine. But don't try and claim you know what happened and whether people actively avoided me or not.

in my view, respect for each other and respect for officials is a core tenant of the game of rugby. It is accepted practice to shake the hands of match officials at the end of the game, and to actively and obviously avoid this is petty, churlish and disrespectful.

With all due respect, you posted the scenario in such a way that asked for opinions. Your word "refused" suggests you offered and they declined, not that they didn't come over.

I agree it is a bit petty if someone decides they don't want to shake your hand, but you aren't trying to be mates with them, why do you care? Honestly if every person on the field decided not to shake my hand I wouldn't lose sleep; however I've done that day I have always done my best and will reflect and react for next time, good & bad.

I don't believe it is still accepted practice either. It is a traditional view, but I see it as being much changed from the past. On occasions I have seen players sometimes not shaking hands, what do I do? Nothing. It is a shame, but their choice.
 

winchesterref


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Yup, that's the way we roll
Do you?

No. I will hang around and clap the teams off, and if any players ask me to go through I will.

I don't seek to impose myself as the centre of attention during a game, and I don't need applause or hand shakes afterwards to be satisfied/dissatisfied with my performance, so I can't for the life of me see why I would assume that players want to clap me and pat me on the back as I walk between them, and give three cheers for the ref. It is awkward, it is making it all about me when I've spent 80 minutes trying not to do that, and as above, I couldn't care less if I win their appreciation or not.
 

Drift


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You weren't there, how the heck can you opine on this?

if you don't think it's an issue, fine. But don't try and claim you know what happened and whether people actively avoided me or not.

in my view, respect for each other and respect for officials is a core tenant of the game of rugby. It is accepted practice to shake the hands of match officials at the end of the game, and to actively and obviously avoid this is petty, churlish and disrespectful.

From what you said it makes it seem as you went over for a handshake, extended the hand and they refused. It's not my fault if you didn't paint a full picture of what happened, however from what else has come out let me do that for you.

You refereed a game of rugby, blew full time, hung around near the tunnel ready and waiting for any handshake that was offered and some players from the losing team didn't extend that to you. Due to them not extending a hand you are claiming a lack of respect, with other posters thinking you need to report abuse/lack of respect to other society members. How did I go?

I am all for respect between players and referees, however I also understand that after just losing a game of rugby some players will need to have time to process this and may not feel like coming up to me to shake my hand. I am not going to then try and make a mountain out of a mole hill and claim a lack of respect for me and other officials. To do so takes away any empathy for the players that you might have.

Personally I don't wait around to shake players hands on the pitch, I usually just want to sign the books and get off the pitch into the changing rooms to have a shower. Once I've showered and I head into the bar I will talk to any player or person who wants to come up and chat to me or thank me for the game, however 2 minutes after a game I don't expect to have those pleasantries and I don't assume the players expect them either.

You're getting upset over nothing, there are much bigger things to worry about in our game than not getting a handshake from a small number of players after a game.

- - - Updated - - -

If there's anything that Drift has in abundance it is opines :)

You know I do.
 

Rich_NL

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It's very culture dependent, obviously. It has honestly never occurred to me not to go through the tunnel between the two teams as a ref - purely from tradition, nothing to do with respect or making it about me - and as a player I always thank the ref even (maybe especially) if he's had a shocker.
 

Drift


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Quote Originally Posted by TigerCraig View Post
You are assuming as referee I am actually leaving the field. In most cases I stay out there to either referee or run touch in the next game.

Here is the usual end of game ritual:

1) blow fulltime
2) as players are all shaking hands I find the captains and shakes theirs, as well as any other players who offer
3) chase after ARs/TJs so that I can salvage my flags
4) team managers come out to me with their clipboards. Resolve dispute about score discrepancy. Ask manager for name and ID number of red carded player (turns out this was his first, and last, game so no details available).

By then both teams have done any tunnels that they may want to do, and I (or the fellow I am running touch for) am blowing the whistle to get the players for the next game out onto the field. I need to find & put on comms gear (still in ref's change room) and listen to pre-match instructions from next ref
plus mine in red :)

Since when have you ever listened to my pre match?
 

crossref


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No. I will hang around and clap the teams off, and if any players ask me to go through I will.

I don't seek to impose myself as the centre of attention during a game, and I don't need applause or hand shakes afterwards to be satisfied/dissatisfied with my performance, so I can't for the life of me see why I would assume that players want to clap me and pat me on the back as I walk between them, and give three cheers for the ref. It is awkward, it is making it all about me when I've spent 80 minutes trying not to do that, and as above, I couldn't care less if I win their appreciation or not.

on the other hand if every other ref is going through the tunnel perhaps you are making it all about you ? You're the ref who is so standoffish, you don't even go through the tunnel... a mild version of Craig J running off the pitch?

I exaggerate, of course - but my serious point is that the best way to NOT be the centre of the show, is to follow the established customs, whatever they happen to be.

Aside - I don't often hear 'three cheers for the ref', but I do often here
= three cheers for Old Townionans" (hooray, hooray, hooray)
= and one for the ref (ONE!)

it makes me smile every time.
 

Paule23


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From what you said it makes it seem as you went over for a handshake, extended the hand and they refused. It's not my fault if you didn't paint a full picture of what happened, however from what else has come out let me do that for you.

You refereed a game of rugby, blew full time, hung around near the tunnel ready and waiting for any handshake that was offered and some players from the losing team didn't extend that to you. Due to them not extending a hand you are claiming a lack of respect, with other posters thinking you need to report abuse/lack of respect to other society members. How did I go?

Partly there but not brilliant. I'll give you some more detail, in 2 out of the 3 occasions I knew the losing team were not particularly happy with me. In such circumstances I make myself very visible in the area where players are shaking hands, joining the end of a line of handshakes, remaining in the middle of the pitch or where the players are, approaching certain players if they are looking at me etc. In one or two instances I have asked players and coaches specifically if they wish to shake my hand and they have walked away. I hope you can take my word for it, the players and coaches have made a conscious, active, team decision that they do not wish to shake my hand at the end of the game, presumably to make a point about how they thing I cost them the game through my decisions.

I am all for respect between players and referees, however I also understand that after just losing a game of rugby some players will need to have time to process this and may not feel like coming up to me to shake my hand. I am not going to then try and make a mountain out of a mole hill and claim a lack of respect for me and other officials. To do so takes away any empathy for the players that you might have.

I don't believe I am making a mountain out of a molehill. I believe actively avoiding/refusing to shake the referees hand at the end of a game shows a lack of respect, and I believe this sort of low level irritation is increasing in the game. If you are not concerned about it that is fair enough, we have a different opinion here. I fully understand your perspective that it is not a big issue, and it probably isn't, I just think it's petty, churlish, immature and not displaying the culture of respect which is supposed to be pervasive within the game.

Personally I don't wait around to shake players hands on the pitch, I usually just want to sign the books and get off the pitch into the changing rooms to have a shower. Once I've showered and I head into the bar I will talk to any player or person who wants to come up and chat to me or thank me for the game, however 2 minutes after a game I don't expect to have those pleasantries and I don't assume the players expect them either.

I'm not after pleasantries, people enquiring about my family or health etc, just a simple handshake from some of the players (I know you will never get all of them).

You're getting upset over nothing, there are much bigger things to worry about in our game than not getting a handshake from a small number of players after a game.

Of course there are bigger issues, but I believe respect for officials during and after the game is very important, and this is an example of that respect being eroded.
 

Nigib


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Partly there but not brilliant. I'll give you some more detail, in 2 out of the 3 occasions I knew the losing team were not particularly happy with me. In such circumstances I make myself very visible in the area where players are shaking hands, joining the end of a line of handshakes, remaining in the middle of the pitch or where the players are, approaching certain players if they are looking at me etc. In one or two instances I have asked players and coaches specifically if they wish to shake my hand and they have walked away. I hope you can take my word for it, the players and coaches have made a conscious, active, team decision that they do not wish to shake my hand at the end of the game, presumably to make a point about how they thing I cost them the game through my decisions.



I don't believe I am making a mountain out of a molehill. I believe actively avoiding/refusing to shake the referees hand at the end of a game shows a lack of respect, and I believe this sort of low level irritation is increasing in the game. If you are not concerned about it that is fair enough, we have a different opinion here. I fully understand your perspective that it is not a big issue, and it probably isn't, I just think it's petty, churlish, immature and not displaying the culture of respect which is supposed to be pervasive within the game.



I'm not after pleasantries, people enquiring about my family or health etc, just a simple handshake from some of the players (I know you will never get all of them).



Of course there are bigger issues, but I believe respect for officials during and after the game is very important, and this is an example of that respect being eroded.

It's like bullying, to draw a parallel - if you feel you've been disrespected, then whatever the intention of the perpetrator, you have been. I would report this to your Disciplinary Officer - they can then deal with it as they feel fit. You may be the 10th ref in successive games to report that team for not shaking hands or various other disrespectful actions. Or you may be the only ref to report anything on the last 10 games you've had. Your DO may have a discussion with the team concerned, or may have a discussion with you and suggest you need some guidance and an advisor. Either way at least something is being done or at least monitored.
 
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