Increasing lack of respect?

Pegleg

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I don't seek to impose myself as the centre of attention during a game, and I don't need applause or hand shakes afterwards to be satisfied/dissatisfied with my performance, so I can't for the life of me see why I would assume that players want to clap me and pat me on the back as I walk between them, and give three cheers for the ref. It is awkward, it is making it all about me when I've spent 80 minutes trying not to do that, and as above, I couldn't care less if I win their appreciation or not.


It's not about being centre of attention. It is manners. Something rugby has prided itself on over 100+ years. In some cultures they have a different (not better nor worse) way of doing things. I actually find players tend to make sure they get you to go through the tunnel.

It could even be read into your post that, "it is making it all about me when I've spent 80 minutes trying not to do that, and as above, I couldn't care less if I win their appreciation or not." Is actually doing what you protest you are not doing.

It's a tradition in the UK just like calling a referee sir etc. Rugby is all the better for some of its standards.
 

winchesterref


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It could even be read into your post that, "it is making it all about me when I've spent 80 minutes trying not to do that, and as above, I couldn't care less if I win their appreciation or not." Is actually doing what you protest you are not doing.

It's a tradition in the UK just like calling a referee sir etc. Rugby is all the better for some of its standards.

No, it couldn't. Why are the players going to be bothered if I do or don't go through? They won't say "oh here comes the ref who won't let us clap him off", they'll say "oh here's the ref who sent off so-and-so for a high tackle because the defender slipped". I don't refuse to participate and I'm there if invited, and of course will oblige, I'm just not actively imposing myself.

There are many rugby traditions which don't take place as frequently now as they did 100 years ago. Such as playing with a pig bladder.
 

Nigib


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Bullying because we don't get our hands shaken.
Are we 5 years old? :wtf:

No, I'm making an analogy to illustrate the point - if I feel something as a result of someone doing something that affects me, then it has happened as far as I am concerned. Pretending something was just 'banter' or they 'didn't mean it like that' is irrelevant.

I avoid the potential issue because I don't approach players after the game with a hand extended expecting a handshake; I wait for them to extend a hand first. If a player swears at me after the game, or exhibits some other form of abuse, I will report them - this is to prevent it happening to other refs in future as much as a sanction for what they have done.

We all have a right to be respected, whatever age - and evidently the various contributors on this thread are exhibiting different levels of tolerance.
 

SimonSmith


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I seem to remember a certain SA referee, in the World Cup, after a horrendous decision, heading off the field without shaking players' hands.

He got pilloried for that as much, if not worse, than his decision.
 

leaguerefaus


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I seem to remember a certain SA referee, in the World Cup, after a horrendous decision, heading off the field without shaking players' hands.

He got pilloried for that as much, if not worse, than his decision.
A horrendous decision? I would wager that you, and most other referees, have made many similar mistakes, and none of them were 'horrendous'. Seeing it once at full speed and from one angle it was an easy mistake to make, regardless of what level game the referee was doing. Your comment is ridiculous.
 
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dave_clark


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It's like bullying, to draw a parallel - if you feel you've been disrespected, then whatever the intention of the perpetrator, you have been. I would report this to your Disciplinary Officer - they can then deal with it as they feel fit. You may be the 10th ref in successive games to report that team for not shaking hands or various other disrespectful actions. Or you may be the only ref to report anything on the last 10 games you've had. Your DO may have a discussion with the team concerned, or may have a discussion with you and suggest you need some guidance and an advisor. Either way at least something is being done or at least monitored.

national colts cup game a number of years ago, the head coach from the opposition showed what was little more than a bad attitude towards the ref in the clubhouse after the game. on its own it would have been practically nothing, but the coach in question had form (which neither i nor the ref realised) and he got a 9 week ban from all rugby (including playing - and he was playing level 7 IIRC).

i guess my point is to report these things, even if they seem minor at the time. it may end up similar to the above scenario.

of course you may be told to man up by the society, in which case you shrink back into your shell...
 

Nigib


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i guess my point is to report these things, even if they seem minor at the time. it may end up similar to the above scenario.

of course you may be told to man up by the society, in which case you shrink back into your shell...

Your society must be there to support you constructively - whenever I've reported anything, there's been no questioning of my decision, just clarification of fact. We have to support each other, and Law 6(a)4(a) rules supreme - we (I) can always do better, but we need to feel secure that we will always be backed by our society. You should never be given the 'man up' line.
 

Pegleg

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Spot on. Give bad manners and inch and it will take a mile. Nip it in the bud.
 

SimonSmith


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A horrendous decision? I would wager that you, and most other referees, have made many similar mistakes, and none of them were 'horrendous'. Seeing it once at full speed and from one angle it was an easy mistake to make, regardless of what level game the referee was doing. Your comment is ridiculous.
Did he get it wrong?
Would it be considered a game critical incident?

And you anchoring on that point, rather than the wider one that is actually germane to the discussion seems a tad petty.
 

Shelflife


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I don't go through the tunnel.

Blow whistle to end match , then I will stand near look for my flags and happily shake hands with all that offer it, if I happen to end up in a line of players shaking hands and one or two miss me out I don't think too much about it.

As as a player I would always shake hands with the ref, it's basic manners .

I personally think the two capts and both coaches should seek you out to shake your hand but if they don't it doesn't bother me.

If im leaving the pitch as a tunnel is formed I'll stand at the side and clap both teams off.

Had my first instance of ref abuse 2 weeks ago, coached called me a f@&king disgrace on the pitch in front of all the players. I reported him and he's up in front of the disciplinary panel soon.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Had my first instance of ref abuse 2 weeks ago, coached called me a f@&king disgrace on the pitch in front of all the players. I reported him and he's up in front of the disciplinary panel soon.

Good lad!
 

menace


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Your society must be there to support you constructively - whenever I've reported anything, there's been no questioning of my decision, just clarification of fact. We have to support each other, and Law 6(a)4(a) rules supreme - we (I) can always do better, but we need to feel secure that we will always be backed by our society. You should never be given the 'man up' line.

In essence I agree but long as we can admit we are fallible and make mistakes too and not be too staunch with a 'holier than thou' demeanour. All in the context of the reaction to the error of course!
 

Nigib


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In essence I agree but long as we can admit we are fallible and make mistakes too and not be too staunch with a 'holier than thou' demeanour. All in the context of the reaction to the error of course!

Of course, agree. We (I, at least), make numerous errors of judgement every game I ref. We do the best we can, and if/when reporting lack of respect must be honest - and in that context, your Society should still back you and support you. Whatever you've done, you should still be treated respectfully by players and coaches (however unpalatable that may be for them :) ).
 

TigerCraig


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You weren't there, how the heck can you opine on this?

if you don't think it's an issue, fine. But don't try and claim you know what happened and whether people actively avoided me or not.

in my view, respect for each other and respect for officials is a core tenant of the game of rugby. It is accepted practice in Scotland/UK to shake the hands of match officials at the end of the game, and to actively and obviously avoid this is petty, churlish and disrespectful.

edited for accuracy
 

TigerCraig


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Add the US for where it is customary

Don't get me wrong, not saying there's no hand shaking here - but its not an expectation or a custom that every player will shake hands with the ref.

Captains and coaches, yes. Other players sometimes yes, sometimes no. Usually it is the player who approaches the ref as they walk past. Often you will just get a nod and a "thanks mate".

To be honest I prefer it that way. I don't really want some formalised process where people feel obliged to do something they don't want to do.
 

SimonSmith


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I'm not saying one's better than the other, just adding data for accuracy.
 

TheBFG


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Had a player "take a dive" on Saturday, so as I ran past told him to "get up, I'm not falling for that" at which point a sub on the side line shouts "he's got a head injury you F***ing pr!ck"

:norc:

See ya!

Was also called a "f***ing joke" by a player that got a second yellow :norc: (that got an extra line in the report! :nono: )
 

winchesterref


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Had a player "take a dive" on Saturday, so as I ran past told him to "get up, I'm not falling for that" at which point a sub on the side line shouts "he's got a head injury you F***ing pr!ck"

:norc:

See ya!

Was also called a "f***ing joke" by a player that got a second yellow :norc: (that got an extra line in the report! :nono: )

Yes, but did you chase them to shake hands? :=
 

didds

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did he have a head injury (genitalia nomenclature aside) ?

didds
 
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