jdeagro
Referees in America
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I've seen the question around not engaging the almost-maul at the lineout, and regarding players leaving the lineout early, come up a multitude of times recently. A buddy of mine just sent me this Instagram video for an instance of it. I'll preface this by saying I think the commentator on the video is wrong. Curious if you agree or disagree based on the following:
Since this is not a maul, the lineout ends when the ball or a player in possession of the ball (in this case) leaves the lineout, as per 18.37.a.i.
The lineout is only about a meter wide in the opposition's half of the mark of touch. Once that ball carrier advanced past the line of where the opposition players were previously standing, the ball carrier has left the lineout, and the lineout is over in my eyes.
But lets play devil's advocate and pretend it's not over, as the ball carrier has not traveled far enough to leave the lineout. The opposition players that are perhaps no more than a foot away are still in the area of where the lineout is then too. They have not left the lineout just because they are retreating, since the ball carrier advanced multiple feet, and we are saying he's still in the lineout / the lineout hasn't ended yet. So it's only fair it goes both ways.
Furthermore, in order for the defending players to remain onside while the lineout is still on, they have to retreat to not let the ball pass them, as per 18.32:
Damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
If you want to go the extra mile, a hill I'm willing to die on is that law 18.29.d even further complicates things by going against some of these other laws, and makes this all a moot point anyway:
World Rugby really needs to establish clarity around all of this, IMO.
So, given my long-winded prelude above, are we complicating things for ourselves and what's expected in the game by being pedantic and penalizing the team not in possession of the ball at the lineout just because they step backwards out of the way instead of to the side? We've already established that it's legal to begin to form a maul from set pieces (not a flying wedge) so long as the ball carrier remains in the front (no obstruction). So there's nothing to be gained by a team who steps backwards away from the advancing ball carrier and his players anyway. Why penalize?
Additionally, if you believe ball carrier hasn't advanced enough to carry ball out of the lineout in the Instagram video I linked above, then please let me know how far from the mark of touch is considered outside the lineout. As we normally agree ball has left the lineout as soon as it's tapped from the top or pulled out from the receiver, which is a much shorter distance traveled than the ball carrier in the Instagram video.
Since this is not a maul, the lineout ends when the ball or a player in possession of the ball (in this case) leaves the lineout, as per 18.37.a.i.
The lineout is only about a meter wide in the opposition's half of the mark of touch. Once that ball carrier advanced past the line of where the opposition players were previously standing, the ball carrier has left the lineout, and the lineout is over in my eyes.
But lets play devil's advocate and pretend it's not over, as the ball carrier has not traveled far enough to leave the lineout. The opposition players that are perhaps no more than a foot away are still in the area of where the lineout is then too. They have not left the lineout just because they are retreating, since the ball carrier advanced multiple feet, and we are saying he's still in the lineout / the lineout hasn't ended yet. So it's only fair it goes both ways.
Furthermore, in order for the defending players to remain onside while the lineout is still on, they have to retreat to not let the ball pass them, as per 18.32:
Until the ball is thrown in, and has touched the player or the ground, the offside line for lineout players is the mark of touch. After that, their offside line is a line through the ball.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
If you want to go the extra mile, a hill I'm willing to die on is that law 18.29.d even further complicates things by going against some of these other laws, and makes this all a moot point anyway:
Once the lineout has commenced, any player in the lineout may:
Leave the lineout so as to be in a position to receive the ball, provided they remain within 10 metres of the mark of touch and they keep moving until the lineout is over.
World Rugby really needs to establish clarity around all of this, IMO.
So, given my long-winded prelude above, are we complicating things for ourselves and what's expected in the game by being pedantic and penalizing the team not in possession of the ball at the lineout just because they step backwards out of the way instead of to the side? We've already established that it's legal to begin to form a maul from set pieces (not a flying wedge) so long as the ball carrier remains in the front (no obstruction). So there's nothing to be gained by a team who steps backwards away from the advancing ball carrier and his players anyway. Why penalize?
Additionally, if you believe ball carrier hasn't advanced enough to carry ball out of the lineout in the Instagram video I linked above, then please let me know how far from the mark of touch is considered outside the lineout. As we normally agree ball has left the lineout as soon as it's tapped from the top or pulled out from the receiver, which is a much shorter distance traveled than the ball carrier in the Instagram video.
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