[6N] Italy/France

[nhughes]

Am a little confused with the slaping of the ball as there was an incident in a Bath game late last year where a Bath player was busy playing to the crowd instead of grounding the ball and a defender slapped his hand which caused Bath to drop the ball forward for a 5 metre scrum, I remember the commentator saying if the defender had slapped the ball that would have been illegal. Is it that France attempted a tackle that happened to slap the ball out of Italy's hands?

 

[Taff]

Am a little confused with the slapping of the ball as there was an incident in a Bath game late last year where a Bath player was busy playing to the crowd instead of grounding the ball and a defender slapped his hand which caused Bath to drop the ball forward for a 5 metre scrum ...

A ball carrier (BC) can lose possession or he can have possession taken from him. Eg if the BC lost the ball forward that's a knock on. If on the other hand the defender slaps the ball and the ball goes forward from the BC then it's play on. It's the same where a BC is held and the ball is ripped from him; the ball may have gone forward from the original ball carrier, but it's not considered a knock on. Makes sense?

Am a little confused with the slapping of the ball ... I remember the commentator saying if the defender had slapped the ball that would have been illegal.

Just because a commentator or pundit says something, for the sake of your own sanity please don't take it as gospel. :biggrin:

 

[ChrisR]

If the ball is slapped/punched directly by an opponent that is not an offence in and of itself. But there are complications . . . .

If the ball then goes in the direction of the opponent's goal then it would be a knock-on charged to the tackler. If the ball goes directly into touch/touch-in-goal or over the dead ball line then the puncher could be charged with playing the ball by hand/arm off the playing area. That wouldn't be my choice but we've seen it.

If the tackler strikes the arm of the ball carrier then the BC is resposible for the direction of the ball.

 

[SimonSmith]

Clarification 1, 2014:

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]

Clarification of the designated members of the Rugby Committee

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[FONT=fs_blakeregular]If a player in tackling an opponent makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward from the ball carriers hands, that is a knock on.

If a player rips the ball or deliberately knocks the ball from an opponent's hands and the ball goes forward from the ball carrier's hands, that is not a knock on.

[/FONT]

 

[Zebra1922]

Clarification 1, 2014:

[FONT=fs_blakeregular][/FONT]

Well that's as clear as mud. We have to differentiate between incidental contact making the ball go forward (knock on) and a deliberate contact making the ball go forward which is not a knock on, all during the complex tackle area.

At least at my level I don't have replays (apart from my gopro which I can edit all my mistakes out of before publishing on youtube!)

 

[nhughes]

Here's the clip I was on about, knocked on and then kicked out by the defender. Definitely not the clearest of instructions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxU-Af4FuDg

 

[Taff]

... At least at my level I don't have replays (apart from my gopro which I can edit all my mistakes out of before publishing on youtube!)

Sorry this isn't strictly relevant to the thread but just a friendly word of warning Zebra.

We were sent an e-mail telling us that we were not to wear GoPros. In fact, I'm pretty sure the e-mail mentioned there could be insurance issues; and you don't want to find yourself uninsured if there was an incident.

Here's the clip I was on about, knocked on and then kicked out by the defender. Definitely not the clearest of instructions.

For what it's worth this is what I think. If Red had deliberately slapped the ball out of Blacks hands and over the DBL, then that could be a penalty offence because a player is not allowed to slap the ball out of play. In your clip, I think he tapped the players arm (not the ball) and the BC lost possession ie it's a knock on. I can't remember what the decision was on the day.

 

[SimonSmith]

You don't have to wear a Go Pro. You can set them up on the sideline with a tracker

 

[Dickie E]

for me, that is a loose carry as opposed to defender ripping the ball free. Knock on.

 

[nhughes]

If I remember correctly the decision was a 5 metre scrum for a knock on

 

[didds]

Sorry this isn't strictly relevant to the thread but just a friendly word of warning Zebra.

We were sent an e-mail telling us that we were not to wear GoPros. In fact, I'm pretty sure the e-mail mentioned there could be insurance issues; and you don't want to find yourself uninsured if there was an incident..

was that a WRU edict? Or a WR one? Zebra seems to be under the auspices of the SRU ?

didds

 

[Rich_NL]

Here's Wayne Barnes discussing maintaining contact all the way down...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=92&v=hcuZwTiPU_E

 

[Taff]

was that a WRU edict? Or a WR one? Zebra seems to be under the auspices of the SRU?

I'm pretty sure it was an e-mail from the WRU. I appreciate that Zebra may referee under the auspices of the SRU, but I wouldn't be surprised if the conditions of the insurance are either the same or very similar, but being responsible for my business' Professional Indemnity Insurance (PII) one thing I have learnt years ago was if in doubt - check.

Zebra, if I were you I would either e-mail the Refs Dept to ask a straight question or bring it up at the next Referees meeting; and whatever the answer is, make sure it's recorded somewhere. Imagine if you wore a GoPro and clattered into a player (it happens to all of us at some time or another) and the GoPro caused damage and then you found out that you shouldn't have been wearing it in the first place and you weren't insured. The consequences don't bear thinking about. Please check it.

 

[Zebra1922]

I'm pretty sure it was an e-mail from the WRU. I appreciate that Zebra may referee under the auspices of the SRU, but I wouldn't be surprised if the conditions of the insurance are either the same or very similar, but being responsible for my business' Professional Indemnity Insurance (PII) one thing I have learnt years ago was if in doubt - check.

Zebra, if I were you I would either e-mail the Refs Dept to ask a straight question or bring it up at the next Referees meeting; and whatever the answer is, make sure it's recorded somewhere. Imagine if you wore a GoPro and clattered into a player (it happens to all of us at some time or another) and the GoPro caused damage and then you found out that you shouldn't have been wearing it in the first place and you weren't insured. The consequences don't bear thinking about. Please check it.

Wore it at an official SRUnsanctioned game with the blessing of the match organiser, worn it whilst being assessed several times and several refs in my local society use them so no edicts have been given to us.

I wear two watches which could cause unjust and carry a whistle which could poke an eye out. Should I stop carrying these too?

 

[Taff]

.... I wear two watches which could cause unjust and carry a whistle which could poke an eye out. Should I stop carrying these too?

If you're happy that you're covered, that's all that counts. :wink: