Keeping the score

Taffy


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I was appointed AR at a match yesterday. Blue v Green. Blue were expected to win. The ref had requested that I keep the score and the other AR keep the time. 5 minutes to go over the comms the ref asks me the score. I say Green 25 Blue 21. I didn't know it at the time but Blue had asked him. The ref repeated the score but just said 25 v 21. The blue player said "To us?" The ref paused and then added as an afterthought "yeah". So blue now thinks they are 4 points up.

Uproar when the match ended. Coach of Blue very unhappy and came storming on to the pitch. Ref dealt with him very well. V understandable as they played differently on the basis that they thought they were ahead.

Ref confessed to a miscommunication to blue. I was worried I had got. Scores wrong but I hadn't.

Any my lessons to learn? Apart from the fact that I will volunteer to keep the time next time.
 

TheBFG


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yeah, the bloody ref should keep score himself! :wink:

I assume there was no blame pointed at you?
 

FlipFlop


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learning point for the ref: When asked the score, the answer is "I don't know". Even if I do know, I say I don't. It is not for me to inform the team of the score, so they can pick tactics based on it.

I just tell them I add it up at the end.

Never had a problem of telling teams the wrong score, or the wrong side thinking they have won, etc. Coaches should be able to keep score, and most teams have a player who can keep it in their head as well.
 

crossref


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learning point for the ref: When asked the score, the answer is "I don't know". Even if I do know, I say I don't. It is not for me to inform the team of the score, so they can pick tactics based on it.

I just tell them I add it up at the end.

Never had a problem of telling teams the wrong score, or the wrong side thinking they have won, etc. Coaches should be able to keep score, and most teams have a player who can keep it in their head as well.

but don't you have a problem with all the players thinking you are being a dick ? ;)

I don't attempt to keep score in my head (far too risky) but if asked at an appropriate time have no problem pulling my score card out of my pocket and adding it up.

Indeed: most often the question comes just after a score, and I'll actually have my scorecard in my hand already ... I don't see how it helps anyone for me to refuse to add it up .
 
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Taff


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Womble makes a point of not wanting to know the score until the game is over - in case it influences a crucial decision.

Having said that, I do tend to keep a running score. Someone always asks, and you look a bit of a dick if you say you don't know. I suppose you could go try explaining the logic of why you don't want to know till the final whistle has gone, but it's probably easier to just tot it up as you go along.
 

crossref


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the risk of keeping a running total is that if you make a mistake once, early in the game, then that mistake endures for the rest of the game....

on the other hand you merely note down each score, and add them up when needed, then even if you make a mistake once the next time you tally the scores you'll return to the correct total.
 

sjjkennedy


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The learning for three AR should be that when he heard the referee make the error, he should have been brave enough to correct him. I'm sure the ref would have appreciated it.
 

FlipFlop


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Someone asks - I just say "No idea, not added it up." and then get on with the game. Never been a problem. If they did push it would probably say something along the lines of "I prefer not to know, so I am not influenced by the score". But never had to answer that question.

Yes I generally know the score. But I don't want to be held responsible/blamed/etc for getting it wrong on the field, and changing the way a team plays.

And if the AR had the score, I wouldn't pass the score on, I would tell them the AR had the score, not me, and get on with the game.

I don't take on a risk I don't need to. And it has never been an issue.
 

crossref


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if you are in a position where you are able to delegate the score-keeping to someone else, then fair enough : you can answer 'The AR is keeping the score, I'm not keeping track'

but in a grass roots game, where you are the scorekeeper, and you do have the score, it seems odd to me that you wouldn't reveal it to the players when reasonably asked.
 

OB..


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[LAWS]6.A.4 (c) The referee keeps the score.[/LAWS] Asking the AR to also keep score seems fair enough. Is it common practice these days to delegate score keeping?

I am with crossref. I expect the referee to respond if asked at an appropriate time, and have never yet heard a referee refuse (at my levels we rarely have ARs).
 

didds

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if you are in a position where you are able to delegate the score-keeping to someone else, then fair enough : you can answer 'The AR is keeping the score, I'm not keeping track'

I'd hope that the AR is entitled to say "No thanks. Not my bag" rather than pushed into a duty they don't want to do. I can see issues here with ARs that do not NORMALLY do this duty and it is not secod nature to do so and something may be

but in a grass roots game, where you are the scorekeeper, and you do have the score, it seems odd to me that you wouldn't reveal it to the players when reasonably asked.

Indeed. Clearly if players are asking every few minutes, constantly, it is fair enough to eventually decline. But as CR says it seems a reasonable request to make generally speaking. especially if you want to avoid scenarios of a prop taking a knee, whilst the rest of the time this create time to huddle around and work it out themselves.

didds
 

SimonSmith


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When I was playing, there was an explicit expectation that a designated player would be tracking the score and wouldn't have to ask the referee. I don't think that's unreasonable
 

crossref


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When I was playing, there was an explicit expectation that a designated player would be tracking the score and wouldn't have to ask the referee. I don't think that's unreasonable

and if he wants to be sure he's got it right and he asks the referee, the referee would ..... ?
 

Pegleg

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I keep the score and a running total on my scorecard. This goes for when I'm ref or AR. For me the ref should to (AND TIME). I'll always back the ref up with a confirmation via my watch if he has a problem If a coach asks me whien I'm AR about the time I will aways say "about x mins left depending on injuries" They usually are happy with that.. If I have ARs I will ask them to "cover me" and I'll double check from time to time with them to make sure we are in agreement.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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I always keep running score and would tell anyone who asked me. Hopefully would never influence my decisions.
I made the mistake in my very first game of writing downed T, C, P, DG. Turned out it was a try fest around 40 points each. 5 minutes to go awarded green a penalty on touch line 40 meters out. Skipper asked me the score and I quickly added up that they were 2 points behind. They went for goal, scored and 5 minutes later at full time, both teams cheered for a win. Turns out I'd added up wrong and green lost by 1 point!
 

Rushforth


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I never have ARs available, and as AR willing to take partial charge of scores in theory (but standing behind posts means less time to write).

Having kept score for 30 internationals (fortunately there was a replacement available for the finals, because I was ill second day and effed up one game - England v Minnow) I know exactly how difficult the seemingly simple task of keeping score is.

Memory does NOT work (I'm talking XVs now). Writing all scores is my habit. 5 for try, + for conversion, and 3 for PG (or DG, not yet had one myself). Also writing the time helps (including seconds, for tries, so as to have a reference for 90 secs passed, or rather "it's OK, you still have 30" in windy conditions).
 

OB..


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I always keep the score and often get queries from spectators and coaches. I give my version but point out that the referee has the official score. It is rare for there to be a disagreement.
 

lawsons

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Someone asks - I just say "No idea, not added it up." and then get on with the game. Never been a problem. If they did push it would probably say something along the lines of "I prefer not to know, so I am not influenced by the score". But never had to answer that question.

Yes I generally know the score. But I don't want to be held responsible/blamed/etc for getting it wrong on the field, and changing the way a team plays.

And if the AR had the score, I wouldn't pass the score on, I would tell them the AR had the score, not me, and get on with the game.

I don't take on a risk I don't need to. And it has never been an issue.

I have some sympathy with this position. It reminds me with the story (which i was told was true) of the ref who answered the question with 30 seconds to go "your ahead by 2" where upon the captain told his kicker not to go for the eminently kickable penalty but to kick it out, only for the opposition to cheer on the final whistle and the ref to realise they were behind by two. Whoops !

In my book, I don't want to add up under pressure, so if I need too and I have sufficient time, I will add up the score such that I can answer the question (i.e. during an injury, conversion). If it is close I will add it up after a try or penalty and (before kick off) tell them "Red lead by 5" etc. However, if I get asked the score and it is something like 45-3, I tell them I'll add it up at the end.

I agree in one sense. Don't rush and give the wrong answer. If you don't feel you have enough time (i.e. 30 seconds left in a game and it would be wrong moment to lose momentum to add up the score), then your better off saying you'll tell them at the end, rather than risk giving the wrong score and affecting the result.
 

crossref


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However, if I get asked the score and it is something like 45-3, I tell them I'll add it up at the end.
.

if it's a league game, the points difference may be vital -- 45-3 could mean relegation for the losers, and 45-8 survival.

The idea that would know the score but decline to tell the players... I just can't see it.
 

SimonSmith


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I have some sympathy with this position. It reminds me with the story (which i was told was true) of the ref who answered the question with 30 seconds to go "your ahead by 2" where upon the captain told his kicker not to go for the eminently kickable penalty but to kick it out, only for the opposition to cheer on the final whistle and the ref to realise they were behind by two. Whoops !

It is true - I know who the referee was. I think it happened just before I emigrated.

I do keep a running score, and I do share with teams if asked. But I completely understand those who don't have the math immediately to hand
 
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