[Law] Kick near goal line, charged down.

[frenchie851]

Does a charge down count as 'playing the ball'?

1, If red kick ball near their own try line, blue charge down, ball goes into goal from charge down, red touch down. Is it scrum 5 or 22?

2, Same as above.... but red kick from within their own in goal. Does this , make a difference?

I know that it is generally accepted that that you make a decision on who took the ball into the in goal. This is why I ask if charging a kick counts as 'playing the ball'?

Thanks,
Leigh.

 

[crossref]

22m do

 

[didds]

Defender
In
DeaD
Scrum.

it doesn't matter how the ball got into in-goal as long as it is a legal method.

didds

 

[crossref]

Attacker
In
Dead
It all depends on what happened in between ..(I am repeatedly told!)

 

[OB..]

The only significance of a charge down is that it is not a knock-on if the ball goes forward.

Since the player deliberately tried to play the ball, it must count as such.

 

[crossref]

What would be interesting is
- defender kicks
- ball hits attacker on the back of the head and goes back into defenders in goal
- defender touches down, expecting a 22m DO


Because OB is quite right, played means deliberately .

So 5m scrum ?

 

[Taff]

1, If red kick ball near their own try line, blue charge down, ball goes into goal from charge down, red touch down. Is it scrum 5 or 22?

22m DO. Blue (Attackers) put the ball in goal and it was made dead.

2, Same as above.... but red kick from within their own in goal. Does this , make a difference?

22m DO again for the same reason as above.

What will catch you out at some point is where the ball is passed back to a defender standing deep in goal and the attacking player (also in goal) charges the ball down and it goes dead. In that case I've been told it's a 5m attacking scrum, because the ball was put in goal by a defender and made dead.

 

[didds]

What will catch you out at some point is where the ball is passed back to a defender standing deep in goal and the attacking player (also in goal) charges the ball down and it goes dead. In that case I've been told it's a 5m attacking scrum, because the ball was put in goal by a defender and made dead.

and whoever told you that is 100% correct

DIDDS

didds

 

[ChrisR]

22m DO. Blue (Attackers) put the ball in goal and it was made dead.


22m DO again for the same reason as above.

What will catch you out at some point is where the ball is passed back to a defender standing deep in goal and the attacking player (also in goal) charges the ball down and it goes dead. In that case I've been told it's a 5m attacking scrum, because the ball was put in goal by a defender and made dead.

If the charge down prevents the ball from leaving goal then it matters who put the ball into goal. Attacking puts in goal then 22DO, defender puts it in then 5m scrum attacking.

 

[chbg]

If the charge down prevents the ball from leaving goal then it matters who put the ball into goal. Attacking puts in goal then 22DO, defender puts it in then 5m scrum attacking.

It ALWAYS matters who puts it in goal. If the kick does not leave goal and was charged down (= played) In Goal, then it was put in BEFORE the kick. If the kick leaves goal and was charged down (= played) in the FoP, then it was put back into goal by the charge down.

 

[crossref]

What would be interesting is
- defender kicks
- ball hits attacker on the back of the head and goes into defenders in goal
- defender touches down, expecting a 22m DO


?

So what about that one .. who put it in the in goal ?

 

[menace]

Does a charge down count as 'playing the ball'?

1, If red kick ball near their own try line, blue charge down, ball goes into goal from charge down, red touch down. Is it scrum 5 or 22?

2, Same as above.... but red kick from within their own in goal. Does this , make a difference?

I know that it is generally accepted that that you make a decision on who took the ball into the in goal. This is why I ask if charging a kick counts as 'playing the ball'?

Thanks,
Leigh.

Is this Leigh Halfpenny finally learning rhe laws? :grin:

1. 22do
2. Depends on if the chargedown touch was before or after the ball has crossed the try line.
After - 22do
Before - who put it into in-goal? (Rinse and repeat)

What would be interesting is
- defender kicks
- ball hits attacker on the back of the head and goes back into defenders in goal
- defender touches down, expecting a 22m DO


Because OB is quite right, played means deliberately .

So 5m scrum ?

So what about that one .. who put it in the in goal ?

It came off blue regardless...so by your words ball crossed back into field of play to hit blue head and then back in goal.
Blue put it in goal. Red TD. 22DO.

 

[crossref]

It came off blue regardless...so by your words ball crossed back into field of play to hit blue head and then back in goal.
Blue put it in goal. Red TD. 22DO.

That seems like the sensible but ...

[LAWS]Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.[/LAWS]

Definition of played?
[LAWS]Played: The ball is played when it is intentionally touched by a player[/LAWS]


So
- when Blue charges the ball down, he is clearly playing it into the in goal - 22m DO

- but if the ball hits Blue in the back of the head he has NOT played it - so the ball was last played by Red


I feel like it should be a 22m, but the Law seems to say last plsyed by red, ball ended up in Red's own ingoal and was touched down - 5m scrum

 

[Dickie E]

Does a charge down count as 'playing the ball'?

as others have said. Also note that if a team mate of the charger-downer is in front of the charge down and plays the ball, he is offside.

 

[menace]

That seems like the sensible but ...

[LAWS]Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.[/LAWS]

Definition of played?
[LAWS]Played: The ball is played when it is intentionally touched by a player[/LAWS]


So
- when Blue charges the ball down, he is clearly playing it into the in goal - 22m DO

- but if the ball hits Blue in the back of the head he has NOT played it - so the ball was last played by Red


I feel like it should be a 22m, but the Law seems to say last plsyed by red, ball ended up in Red's own ingoal and was touched down - 5m scrum

Good point...but
As far as im concerned using his head and not avoiding enough is played at...

So if in field of play..red kick and blue at close range turn his back for protection, ball hits blue leg and then goes into touch youre going to give the throw to blue cause he didnt really deliberately touch it (a la rugby league)??? Not me.

So applying the same union logic and convention that has applied for a long time.

Besides...no changes to 2017 laws...despite what it actually says...remember!:wink:

 

[didds]

That seems like the sensible but ...

[LAWS]Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.[/LAWS]

Definition of played?
[LAWS]Played: The ball is played when it is intentionally touched by a player[/LAWS]


So
- when Blue charges the ball down, he is clearly playing it into the in goal - 22m DO

- but if the ball hits Blue in the back of the head he has NOT played it - so the ball was last played by Red


I feel like it should be a 22m, but the Law seems to say last plsyed by red, ball ended up in Red's own ingoal and was touched down - 5m scrum

Indeed. Its either law writing that isn't reflecting time honoured practice, or referees have been making these "back of the head" decisions incorrectly "for ever".

didds

 

[frenchie851]

Thanks all,

I think I have an understanding of the law I just wanted to check what 'playing the ball' actually meant. Just seen Didds define it as intentionally touching the ball. All cleared up now.

Thanks,
Leigh

 

[crossref]

Leigh , it's in the Law Book in the definitions

[LAWS].Played: The ball is played when it is intentionally touched by a player [/LAWS]

 

[didds]

Thanks all,

I think I have an understanding of the law I just wanted to check what 'playing the ball' actually meant. Just seen Didds define it as intentionally touching the ball. All cleared up now.

Thanks,
Leigh

No. I didn't say that at all.

I remarked that whatever the interpretation may be based on the laws (I think CR said all that) its clear that historically that is not how its been applied wrt who put the ball in goal.

Neither am I disagreeing with CR's claims FTR. Its just not how I see it being blown.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

What Menace says is how it is applied universally as far as I can determine.