Kicking out of ruck
- Thread starter Joe@trfc
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There's a good reason you can't find it - because it isn't there. :biggrin:
We discussed this at a monthly meeting recently. Using your feet in the ruck is the only legal option you have. You can ruck it back if you want / can, but equally a player legally in the ruck can kick it through if he wants. The only thing you need to be aware of, is that it's dangerous play to kick it if the SH has his hands on or close to the ball. Apart from that, it's fair game - feel free to welly it downfield if you can. :biggrin:
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Browner
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Gents, with respect ...I disagree
I do not believe that it was ever intended for the ball to come out of a ruck by players 'fly-hacking/booting' at it :nono:
Definition " Players are rucking when they are in a ruck and using their feet to try to win or keep possession of the ball ...."
Rucks were supposed to be ... one side pushing the other side away from the ball [see all Lawbook pictures ]... all logic suggests the intention of a ruck was a 'adhoc'ly' formed scrummage over the ball, whereby the ball is hooked back towards one team, not booted forwards. [as an aside .... I do not believe that kicking the ball forward in a scrum was ever envisaged as a bona-fide attempt to win possession either]
In the instance described, the player is neither
a] "trying to win" ..... nor
b] keeping
..... possession
Notwithstanding, in almost every instance , if the ball is genuinely still 'IN' then its likely dangerous to swing a boot at it, as bodies/limbs are close by.
Kicking out of a ruck is not a positive action, it's a purely negative disrupting tactic, and should be outlawed IMO.
We all know that rucks rarely look like the lawbook pictures, but lets not make them worse by allowing something so negative to become 'standard' practice :nono:
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Browner
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I contend that the 'intention' was to have similar laws in both ruck & scrum scenarios's
Scrum was a 'Running with ball in hand, has 'broken down through error' restart
Ruck was a 'Running with the ball in hand, but 'broken down through a tackle, restart
?
Scrum was a 'Running with ball in hand, has 'broken down through error' restart
Ruck was a 'Running with the ball in hand, but 'broken down through a tackle, restart
?
Browner
Utterly disagree.
The player is using his feet.
He kicks the ball out forwards in order to disrupt the opposition, and thus improve his teams chance of winning the ball.
Or do you feel his objective us to give them possession?
That's a rhetorical question.
Perfectly legal and good tactical play.
Utterly disagree.
The player is using his feet.
He kicks the ball out forwards in order to disrupt the opposition, and thus improve his teams chance of winning the ball.
Or do you feel his objective us to give them possession?
That's a rhetorical question.
Perfectly legal and good tactical play.
Browner
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No Dave, I don't believe a 'lost ruck' gives a 'bona-fide' ruck participant an opportunity to 'disrupt/mess up ' possession of the side that has legitimately won it.
I see whats occurring
I disagree that it should,
ruck kicking has become a modern tactic, try & find it pre -2000 across the global video library.
As I say, I'd outlaw it tomorrow.
Browner
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:deadhorse:
Because
- the opposition have possession but deeper into their own territory ie they will sacrifice possession for territory and /or
- It's may be crap quality possession anyway.
Yes. Why let the opposition SH have time to go for a ball just sitting there waiting to be picked up, when you can legally welly it 10 to 20 metres downfield making them run back for it?
If the SH is smart though, he will put his hands on the ball (remember that "hands on" does not mean that the ruck is over) because at least the lawbook then protects him.
Chogan
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I had the assessor call me on kicking the ball out of a ruck a month or two ago. Didn't agree at the time but said I'd try it next match.
Within the first 5 minutes of that next game I had blown for it. It felt totally wrong, both sets of players didn't get it and It wasn't called again.
If it's on the floor and you're on your feet, onside etc... you have the right to play with your feet. If that ball is also in the SH's hands then you may not.
Within the first 5 minutes of that next game I had blown for it. It felt totally wrong, both sets of players didn't get it and It wasn't called again.
If it's on the floor and you're on your feet, onside etc... you have the right to play with your feet. If that ball is also in the SH's hands then you may not.
What was the assessor's reasoning?
If it was dangerous then perhaps, but unless it dangerous then, provided the kicker is legal it is not only legal but intelligent disruptive play, that makes life harder for your opponents - which is one of your prime objectives (so long as carried out within the Law).
If it was dangerous then perhaps, but unless it dangerous then, provided the kicker is legal it is not only legal but intelligent disruptive play, that makes life harder for your opponents - which is one of your prime objectives (so long as carried out within the Law).
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nothing illegal with kicking it out (as long a correctly on feet, bound, entered through back foot etc) but as stated it is disruptive play, and negative in my view but on some occasions could be the best option to take.
as for the modern kick ping-pong, deliberately not finding touch etc, I fail to see the tactical benefit of giiving away possession unless
a) your kicking is accurate
i) height & length perfect timing with arriving kick chase players (elite level is often poor)
ii) made catcher turn and kick-chasers force him to touchline options only
b) you are acheieving high turnover ratios at breakdowns
c) opposition have poor kick return tactics
as for the modern kick ping-pong, deliberately not finding touch etc, I fail to see the tactical benefit of giiving away possession unless
a) your kicking is accurate
i) height & length perfect timing with arriving kick chase players (elite level is often poor)
ii) made catcher turn and kick-chasers force him to touchline options only
b) you are acheieving high turnover ratios at breakdowns
c) opposition have poor kick return tactics