[Law] Knock on into the dead ball area.

[frenchie851]

I was watching a game today, if the attacking team knock the ball on into the dead ball area, defensive team then touch it down, would you give the option of the knock on or 22?

I have been giving this option but then I saw a game today in The Champ Cup and the option wasn't given.

 

[TigerCraig]

I was watching a game today, if the attacking team knock the ball on into the dead ball area, defensive team then touch it down, would you give the option of the knock on or 22?

I have been giving this option but then I saw a game today in The Champ Cup and the option wasn't given.

Scrum 5, defending team feed

 

[Flish]

Yup, scrum 5, a 22 would be way too much advantage

 

[crossref]

a 22 would be way too much advantage

you should at least attempt to provide a justification based in Law !

 

[Camquin]

It was explicit in the 2017 laws.
But got lost in the 2019 clarification.
You can imply it from the table in law 19 and the definition of the scrum zone.
As the mark is at 5m you cannot gain territorial advantage without leaving the in-goal.

If you were going to contrive a situation. What if the player who retrieved the knock on cross kicked the ball to a teammate still in the in-goal who then decided not to run but touch down. Normally kicking is sufficient to end knock on advantage (tactical).

 

[Flish]

you should at least attempt to provide a justification based in Law !

All law elements in and around advantage which leave it at the referees judgement - so no, not possible to base it on a specific law - but you know that

 

[Zebra1922]

I had one recently where there was a knock on prior to the goal line, which then went to touch in goal. I gave a 22 DO. Is this wrong and if so why?

 

[TigerCraig]

you should at least attempt to provide a justification based in Law !

Got lost in the rewrite which didnt change anything

 

[Dickie E]

All law elements in and around advantage which leave it at the referees judgement - so no, not possible to base it on a specific law - but you know that

Just saying Law 12.11: [LAWS]Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out. [/LAWS]

 

[crossref]

All law elements in and around advantage which leave it at the referees judgement - so no, not possible to base it on a specific law - but you know that

The law has quite a lot to say about advantage .. and there is no concept of "too much advantage"

Scenario :
- Red knock on inside their own in goal
- Blue touch down for a try

Are you going back for a blue scrum, becasue a try is "way too much advantage" for a simple knock on ?

Of course not . There is no such thing as "too much advantage"

 

[crossref]

.

If you were going to contrive a situation. What if the player who retrieved the knock on cross kicked the ball to a teammate still in the in-goal who then decided not to run but touch down. Normally kicking is sufficient to end knock on advantage (tactical).

If you consider that kicking means advantage over (which is indeed normally the case) ... then your scenario doesn't even need the second player .. the kick could just go into TIG

 

[timmad]

Perhaps in most cases kicking means advantage over however surely there is an implication that the outcome of the kick at least gives territorial advantage to the non-offending team.

 

[crossref]

Perhaps in most cases kicking means advantage over however surely there is an implication that the outcome of the kick at least gives territorial advantage to the non-offending team.

Further back in the thread, the perceived problem is that they get "too much" territorial advantage ! :biggrin:

 

[crossref]

I was watching a game today, if the attacking team knock the ball on into the dead ball area, defensive team then touch it down, would you give the option of the knock on or 22?

I have been giving this option but then I saw a game today in The Champ Cup and the option wasn't given.

For clarity ... If this happened in my game (a knock on from the FoP into the ingoal, where defenders touch down) I would also give a defending scrum on the 5m line .. simply because that is what everyone is expecting.

Law debates are good fun online , but unwelcome on field.

 

[Flish]

There is no such thing as "too much advantage"

Tell that to my assessor!

 

[OB..]

Oh no!!! Not again!!![LAWS]PRINCIPLE
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]If a team gains an advantage following an infringement by their opponents, the referee may allow play to continue in an effort to keep the game flowing.[/FONT][/LAWS]

By making the ball dead you are stopping play and thereby killing the concept of advantage.

 

[Rich_NL]

I had one recently where there was a knock on prior to the goal line, which then went to touch in goal. I gave a 22 DO. Is this wrong and if so why?

No, I think that's the correct call as the defenders haven't chosen to make the ball dead.

The 5m defensive scrum is in place to discourage a touchdown for a 22DO.

 

[crossref]

No, I think that's the correct call as the defenders haven't chosen to make the ball dead.

The 5m defensive scrum is in place to discourage a touchdown for a 22DO.

Although if the attackers send the ball into the in goal without a knock on, we see no problem at all in the defenders touching it down and getting a 22m DO ..

Attackers effectively get rewarded for the knock on ..

 

[Pinky]

I was watching a game today, if the attacking team knock the ball on into the dead ball area, defensive team then touch it down, would you give the option of the knock on or 22?

I have been giving this option but then I saw a game today in The Champ Cup and the option wasn't given.

Hard to answer as what is the "dead ball area" and where did the KO happen?

But basically any KO in the FOP that goes in goal and is made dead by a touchdown is a 5m defending scrum restart.

 

[Balones]

Perhaps in most cases kicking means advantage over however surely there is an implication that the outcome of the kick at least gives territorial advantage to the non-offending team.

Only for a scrum advantage.