Law 10.4 (o) - Foul Play - Late-charging the kicker

[jdeagro]

Perhaps it's just bad wording, but according to the last sentence of section (o) of Law 10.4, is it: A) technically possible to take a PK inside of an opponents in-goal area?; and B) take a PK in an area that is less than 5m away from the opponents try line?

[LAWS]Law 10.4 (o) : If the ball lands in the in-goal, in touch-in-goal, or on or over the dead ball line, the mark for the optional penalty kick is 5 metres from the goal line, in line with the place where the ball crossed the goal line and at least 15 metres from the touchline.

If the ball hits a goal post or crossbar, the optional penalty kick is awarded where the ball lands on the ground.[/LAWS] :chin:

The in-goal area is technically an area "on the ground". But my guess is there's probably some other laws regarding the in-goal area that disallow my scenario A from occurring. If so, what about scenario B?...because that would be an unusual PK (i.e. I don't know of any other instance where a PK or even FK would be awarded closer than 5m from an opponents try line.)

 

[Pinky]

jdeagro, welcome to the forum form me too.

Law 21.2 covers this where it makes it clear that PK awarded in goal, the mark is on the 5m line in line with the PK awarded. Similarly the kick (for attackers) has to be moved back to be 5m from the goal line if awarded nearer

 

[jdeagro]

Ah true. Thanks for pointing out which law specifically disallowed my scenarios.

Cheers.

 

[Taff]

You're not alone in being confused Jdeagro.

I still remember Allain Rolland refereeing the Wales v Samoa game in the RWC 2011 ie just six months ago. A Samoan player was tackled just short of the try line, didn't release the ball and "crawled" to the line. PK to Wales for "not releasing" but Mr Rolland definately took the mark for that PK (which don't forget was to the defenders) out to the 5m line ie it wasn't at the place of infringement.

I think that's what the lawbook meant to say (ie no PK can be closer than 5m to a goal line) but it's not what the book actually says.

 

[Dixie]

You're not alone in being confused Jdeagro.

I still remember Allain Rolland refereeing the Wales v Samoa game in the RWC 2011 ie just six months ago. A Samoan player was tackled just short of the try line, didn't release the ball and "crawled" to the line. PK to Wales for "not releasing" but Mr Rolland definately took the mark for that PK (which don't forget was to the defenders) out to the 5m line ie it wasn't at the place of infringement.

I think that's what the lawbook meant to say (ie no PK can be closer than 5m to a goal line) but it's not what the book actually says.

You are right. Back in 2010, the law was:

[LAWS]21.2(b) When a penalty or free kick is awarded to the defending team in in-goal, the mark for the kick is at the place of infringement. When a penalty or free kick is awarded to the attacking team in in-goal, the mark for the kick is in the field of play, 5 metres from the goal line, in line with the place of infringement.[/LAWS]

It was revised to read:

[LAWS]21.2(b) When a penalty or free kick is awarded in in-goal, the mark for the kick is in the field of play, 5 metres from the goal line, in line with the place of infringement.[/LAWS]

The unfortunate effect is that a PK awarded to the defending team just 1cm into in-goal get advanced 5.01m to the 5m line, while one awarded just 1cm short doesn't get advanced at all. I suspect Allain Rolland was "interpreting" what the iRB meant to say, rather than enforcing what they'd allowed the YTS trainee to insert into the laws without checking his work.

 

[OB..]

[LAWS]Law 21.2 (a) [...] If the place for a penalty or free kick is within 5 metres of the opponents’ goal line, the mark for the kick is 5 metres from the goal line, opposite the place of infringement. [/LAWS]
That is the law that needed changing.

Personally I think all PKs should be at least 5m from a goal line and 15m from a touchline.

 

[Davet]

Not bothered either way about the 5m thing. I don't think its a hard thing to comprehend, but maybe it would be simpler... but ... whatever.

Not sure I agree with bring all kicks in 15, though - makes an easier kick to goal, which teams may well take advanatge of rather than taking one of the options available that could lead to a bit of rugby.

 

[OB..]

Not bothered either way about the 5m thing. I don't think its a hard thing to comprehend, but maybe it would be simpler... but ... whatever.

Not sure I agree with bring all kicks in 15, though - makes an easier kick to goal, which teams may well take advanatge of rather than taking one of the options available that could lead to a bit of rugby.

Yes, but on the other hand, giving away a penalty to the defence 1m out from the goal line and 1m from the touchline restricts their chance to clear their lines. I don't really see why the attackers should get away that lightly.

Most of the time it won't make a lot of difference, of course, so why not tidy it up and be consistent?