Lazy runner offside

[lawsons]

It was my understanding that a lazy runner is not offside in open play until a ruck, maul has formed (so long as he doesn't infringe the tackle area). Watch the attached video and please put me right. The scrum half break came direct from a ruck and all players advanced, retreated past that point. The lazy running scrum half didn't infringe the tackle area, nor did a ruck take place.

Why is he pinged for being offside ? It always looks like he looks offside, but is he in law ?

http://youtu.be/1TM3SKryJj8

 

[OB..]

It was my understanding that a lazy runner is not offside in open play until a ruck, maul has formed (so long as he doesn't infringe the tackle area).

A lazy runner is simply somebody who is offside and interferes with play before being back onside. How he gets offside initially is irrelevant.

 

[Blackberry]

A lazy runner is someone appearing to be attempting to get back onside who adversely affects the attacking team's options.

 

[Phil E]

A lazy runner is someone who ends up in an offside position from a 'previous' breakdown and who fails to get back onside before taking part in the game. They are not penalised unless they affect play before getting back onside first.

It's not the next breakdown, it's the previous one that counts.

 

[lawsons]

A lazy runner is someone who ends up in an offside position from a 'previous' breakdown and who fails to get back onside before taking part in the game. They are not penalised unless they affect play before getting back onside first.

It's not the next breakdown, it's the previous one that counts.

But if the previous breakdown was 15m's behind, surely he is onside by the time he comes to the next one ? The attacker having run 5m + with the ball.

 

[beckett50]

He hadn't played himself onside. No action of a teammate can put him onside.

 

[Rushforth]

There is nothing wrong with being offside. It happens all the time (a fullback kicks, etc). Doing anything which affects the opponents whilst offside is what gets penalised.

 

[lawsons]

He wasn't offside at the previous ruck anyway. But maybe the distinction is whether that tackle was deemed to be a ruck ?

 

[Browner]

He wasn't offside at the previous ruck anyway. But maybe the distinction is whether that tackle was deemed to be a ruck ?

The tackle almost turned into a ruck, but gold backed off & black (clear out player) dived straight off his feet because of that, but at elite level this is almost standard practice.

I froze your clip at 9s , Gold 9 has his hands on the intended 1st receiver and another gold player is between them and the passer so I'm 100% happy with the call at this level.

 

[Guyseep]

Read Law 11.8 It covers the "lazy runner" scenario.

When a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout forms, a player who is offside and is retiring as
required by Law remains offside even when the opposing team wins possession and the
ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended. The player is put onside by retiring behind the
applicable offside line. No other action of the offside player and no action of that player’s
team mates can put the offside player onside.
If the player remains offside the player can be put onside only by the action of the opposing
team. There are two such actions:
Opponent runs 5 metres with ball. When an opponent carrying the ball has run 5 metres,
the offside player is put onside. An offside player is not put onside when an opponent
passes the ball. Even if the opponents pass the ball several times, their action does not put
the offside player onside.
Opponent kicks. When an opponent kicks the ball, the offside player is put onside.


I would guess that the ref thought that last tackle developed into a ruck. In replay it didn't seem like a ruck formed at all, and he was never offside.

 

[Dickie E]

A lazy runner is someone who ends up in an offside position from a 'previous' breakdown and who fails to get back onside before taking part in the game. They are not penalised unless they affect play before getting back onside first.

It's not the next breakdown, it's the previous one that counts.

maybe the "next" and the "previous" make it confusing but what you're saying isn't right as I am reading it.

Let's say Blue #1 is trapped (legally) at the bottom of a ruck which Red win.

By the time Blue #1 gets to his feet and starts to retreat, a new ruck has formed which Red are in control of.

If the ball emerges and the retreating Blue #1 gets caught in traffic then he is a lazy runer, offside and liable penalty. Nothing to do with the previous breakdown.

 

[Phil E]

Nothing to do with the previous breakdown.

Of course it is, it's being trapped at the previous (first ruck in your scenario) breakdown that puts him into the position of being potentially offside and potentially a lazy runner. To get back onside once he is on his feet, he needs to retreat behind the next (second ruck in your scenario) breakdown, before he can take part in play.

 

[Browner]

In replay it didn't seem like a ruck formed at all, and he was never offside.

Granted it wasn't a traditional looking ruck, but it has all the characteristics of an elite (non) ruck, from which fast ball presentation is the aim.
Interestingly the majority of the other Auz players had retreated and realigned at the HMF of this non-ruck and they are therefore expecting it to be classified as a ruck with a new offside line.

G11 initially was positioning for a jackal/steal, B1 certainly dissuaded & kinda cleared him outta the way.

Are you saying that these types of 'quick' ball recycling shouldn't involve a new offside line? , because if that's your point then It would lead to chaos as the ball is passed into an area where the defending side deliberately mingle/clog/disrupt/intercept the attackers possession .... under a protection from offside by their 'non contesting' after a tackle.

I can't see that being a good thing.

 

[Dickie E]

Of course it is, it's being trapped at the previous (first ruck in your scenario) breakdown that puts him into the position of being potentially offside and potentially a lazy runner. To get back onside once he is on his feet, he needs to retreat behind the next (second ruck in your scenario) breakdown, before he can take part in play.

makes a lot of sense if you don't think about it too carefully

 

[Phil E]

makes a lot of sense if you don't think about it too carefully

I try to keep things simple for you :wink: