League points deductions

oldman


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Not sure if this the right place but a friend asked me for some advise and I need help!
The situation a third game at his club was abandoned due to "a 30 man punch up". His question is can the first team be deducted league points as a result of the actions of another team in the club?
 

Pegleg

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I'm guessing that would be down to who was involved and the rules of the league / area that governs your region.

It would seem unfair if innocent sections / teams were punished, but stranger things have happened in rugby.
 

crossref


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If it was a 30 man punch up I guess that means both teams were involved!
 

Pegleg

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Of course both of the teams on the pitch were involved. That is not the question in the op. The questions is: "can the first team be deducted league points as a result of the actions of another team in the club?" The team involved was the thirds. so can the firsts be punished?
 

dave_clark


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i've heard of clubs being threatened with this (no names, but think the noise a dog makes...), but not actually being implemented. but, knowing the chap who used to run essex discipline, he wouldn't have hesitated to implement such a sanction if deserved.
 

didds

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a different scenario but AIUI if a club's 3rd XV plays a 16 year old (in England) and that 16 year old ends up with a severe injury, the 1st XV can not only be docked points but even IIRC banned from playing for 3 months (or similar).

didds
 

crossref


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a different scenario but AIUI if a club's 3rd XV plays a 16 year old (in England) and that 16 year old ends up with a severe injury, the 1st XV can not only be docked points but even IIRC banned from playing for 3 months (or similar).

didds

that makes a bit more sense, because its evidently a deliberate decision, or policy of club to ignore the rules, and play 16 yr olds in adult rugby. So the whole club gets punished.
presumably in this case the 3rd XV didn't go out with the specific intention of fighting.
 

Camquin

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I believe that there is a clause in regulation 19 that allows the RFU or CB to take any action it likes in the case of a club being deemed in disrepute.

I seem to recall that having players up before the beak five times in a season can trigger that - but that could be for a team.
 

TheBFG


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going back a few years I know that if a club were given 5 RC's in a season the WHOLE club could be sanctioned. Not sure if that's still the case, but as others have said I believe that a CB can enforce sanctions on the club as a whole if necessary and I'd say that 3 matches abandoned is getting that way!
 

OB..


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I believe that a CB can enforce sanctions on the club as a whole if necessary and I'd say that 3 matches abandoned is getting that way!
Discipline is an RFU Delegated Function, which means CBs have to follow RFU rules.

From the RFU Handbook
Bad disciplinary record
19.3.1 Where Players or members of a Club appear before a Disciplinary Panel on five or more separate occasions in any one season, that Club may be charged by the RFU Head of Discipline or Constituent Body Disciplinary Secretary and summoned to attend before a Disciplinary Panel on the basis that it has a bad disciplinary record. When dealing with a Club under this provision, the Disciplinary Panel has the power to impose sanctions as set out in Appendix 2.


Appendix 2
...
Bad Disciplinary Record
When dealing with a Club under the bad disciplinary record provisions a Disciplinary Panel may impose any appropriate sanction, including (but not limited to) a reprimand, a financial penalty or deduction of league points or relegation, exclusion or disqualification from any competition, or a combination of the above. Sanctions may also be suspended if considered appropriate.
 

Pegleg

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Of course both of the teams on the pitch were involved. That is not the question in the op. The questions is: "can the first team be deducted league points as a result of the actions of another team in the club?" The team involved was the thirds. so can the firsts be punished?

I see I misread the OP it was the third game. Does this involve different sides within the club? If so it suggest an endemic problem and therefore punishing the club as wa whole seems fair.
 

Camquin

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If there is one incident of a mass brawl that will be dealt with by whoever organised that match or the CB. That will only affect that team.

If players from a club are regularly coming up before the beak, be they play for the seconds, thirds, the vets or if they coach the U7s - the CLUB can be ruled in disrepute. The threshold is five separate incidents.

In which case the RFU can punish the first team if they believe that is the only sanction that the club will pay attention to.

I would say a mass brawl is a single incident, even if multiple players get cited. But I am not a lawyer or on the RFU disciplinary panel.
 

crossref


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so, oldman - what's the background here? Is it a one-off, or is there an endemic club-wide problem ? How did the question of deducting first team points get to be raised?
 
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