[Ruck] Lifting a player in a ruck

[Shane D]

A question that has arisen in another rugby discussion site that has peaked my curiosity.
After a tackle has been complete & both the ball carrier & the players who bought him to ground have completed their obligations under law 15 (carrier released, carrier has successfully played/placed the ball).
A ruck has been formed, can the defending team lift the previously tackled player from the ground & move him over the ball to gain clearer access to the ball?
My thoughts are that as long as law 15 was adhered to & the lifted player is bought back to ground safely, then there is no law preventing a player being picked up in a ruck.

 

[Huck2Spit]

Isn't rolling away or getting to their feet the BC (&tacklers) obligation too--15.4b. So PK and maybe no advantage b/c that's potentiality dangerous. But maybe there's a case for advantage.

 

[Drift]

There is a law that states the tackled player also needs to roll away from the ball. I can't imagine that lifting the player would be a good use of their energy, if you've got enough players there to lift a guy why not "take the space" and win through a good counter ruck?

 

[Rich_NL]

15.5 The tackled player
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]a) [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]A tackled player must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents from gaining possession of it, and must try to make the ball available immediately so that play can continue.
b) A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up or move away from it at once.
[/FONT]

If he's obstructing play, ping him. If they're lifting him up for no reason, they're playing someone off the ball. Or is there something specific you have in mind?

 

[Staffs_Ref]

Rich_NL's response seems to nail it for me.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

15.5 The tackled player
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]a) [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]A tackled player must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents from gaining possession of it, and must try to make the ball available immediately so that play can continue.
b) A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up or move away from it at once.
[/FONT]

If he's obstructing play, ping him. If they're lifting him up for no reason, they're playing someone off the ball. Or is there something specific you have in mind?

Shane, I think tackled player can be lifted enough to free ball w/o recourse

(f) Playing an opponent without the ball. Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push or obstruct an opponent not carrying the ball.

 

[Rich_NL]

Shane, I think tackled player can be lifted enough to free ball w/o recourse

(f) Playing an opponent without the ball. Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push or obstruct an opponent not carrying the ball.

The tackled player isn't in the ruck, though. By location, maybe, but not by law - unbound and off feet, with an obligation to move away from the ball.

I'm still not sure what circumstances could lead to the tackled player needing to be lifted out of the way without not releasing/not moving away/interfering in the ruck being called against them (or against the tackler's team for causing problems)

 

[thepercy]

The tackled player isn't in the ruck, though. By location, maybe, but not by law - unbound and off feet, with an obligation to move away from the ball.

I'm still not sure what circumstances could lead to the tackled player needing to be lifted out of the way without not releasing/not moving away/interfering in the ruck being called against them (or against the tackler's team for causing problems)

Probably the circumstance would be that the referee is not making the player move away, so you would be forced to move him yourself.

 

[Pegleg]

Probably the circumstance would be that the referee is not making the player move away, so you would be forced to move him yourself.

That road is paved with potential issues. "You weren't sorting it so I had to hit him" and that sort of thing. If the ref is happy with the player on the floor it is not the place of the other team to sort him out.

 

[Staffs_Ref]

That road is paved with potential issues. "You weren't sorting it so I had to hit him" and that sort of thing. If the ref is happy with the player on the floor it is not the place of the other team to sort him out.

Agreed!

 

[thepercy]

Agreed!

I'm not advocating violence, nor relieving the referee of his duty to apply the LoTG, merely suggesting when his tactic might be used, and maybe gotten away with. In the good old days, you would counter-ruck, and if the BC was still in the way, you would "move" him with your feet, now that is frowned upon.

 

[Pegleg]

No you're not. However, The ref may have a different interpretation of the scenario and he's the one with the whistle.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

QUOTE=Rich_NL;316381]The tackled player isn't in the ruck, though. By location, maybe, but not by law - unbound and off feet, with an obligation to move away from the ball.

[/QUOTE]

the law below deals with the location of the perpetrator (lifter)in regard to foul play not the victim (lifted) of foul play. the perp is in the ruck. The victim whereabouts are moot.

(f) Playing an opponent without the ball. Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push or obstruct an opponent not carrying the ball.

as for the other query

I'm still not sure what circum[stances could lead to the tackled player needing to be lifted out of the way without not releasing/not moving away/interfering in the ruck being called against them (or against the tackler's team for causing problems

I do remember it as a tactic, but it seems archaic for modern game. The only real benefit would be to put a physical stamp of dominance on the opponent, a belittling tactic

 

[Blackberry]

You also sometimes lift up your own player if he stopping you getting the ball back

 

[Rich_NL]

the law below deals with the location of the perpetrator (lifter)in regard to foul play not the victim (lifted) of foul play. the perp is in the ruck. The victim whereabouts are moot.

(f) Playing an opponent without the ball. Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push or obstruct an opponent not carrying the ball.

Now I'm totally lost. The "perpetrator" *is* in the ruck, so that law doesn't say he's doing anything wrong.

I've seen it in play, but only when the tackled player is clearly obstructing/holding on and then to signal "we're trying, look at what he's doing" to the referee.