Line Out

vimpe22


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Law 15.16g Ruck No player ..

Take any action to make opponents believe that the ruck has ended when it has not.

maul ( law 16.11 c )

Take any action to make opponents believe that the maul has ended when it has not.

Law 19.38 f scrum restricted practice.
Scrum-half attempting to make an opponent believe the ball is out of the scrum when it is not.


The laws have no such restricted clause for a line out.

1. What if the lifters hold the jumper a few seconds delaying the pass of the ball to receiver .
2. What if the jumper while being held up makes believe ( dummy ) he is passing the ball to receiver but does not do so till brought down .

The above may result in the non throwing side moving forward before LO ends and get penalised.


The law now or in the past never included a restriction for LO like for Ruck, Maul or Scrum . So there is no reason to throw a penalty.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Lifters must return the jumper to the ground without delay.
 

didds

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and anyway, whats the difference between that and a centre pretending to pass outside him - but keeping the ball and running on.

A.K.A. a dummy ?

So dont ping them for offside would seem the obvious answer.

didds
 

Dickie E


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A lineout is different in this regard to a scrum, ruck or maul in that the opposition backs have a much better line of sight to see when the ball is actually out (and the lineout is over).

So, if the backs encroach while the ball is in the lineout, the ref should indeed throw a penalty
 

didds

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... or in fact if the ref is so incensed by the subterfuge being utilised ... just not award one and tell them to halt (not necessarily retreat to the O/S line... if you follow my drift - based on level of being insensed! ;-) )

(maybe thats what you meant Dickie of course)
 

vimpe22


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A lineout is different in this regard to a scrum, ruck or maul in that the opposition backs have a much better line of sight to see when the ball is actually out (and the lineout is over).

So, if the backs encroach while the ball is in the lineout, the ref should indeed throw a penalty
That is my point too. The video would have given a better idea . Find difficult to upload . In real time the jumper wins the ball and shows to pass to receiver but does not . This IMO is within the law.
 

vimpe22


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This is the actual video
 

Attachments

  • VIDEO-2022-07-07-10-03-24.mp4
    3.2 MB

Stu10

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If the person making the dummy pass has the ball in hand, that is OK... this is a standard dummy pass, whether in a lineout or in open play.

The laws you quoted above were introduced to combat scrum-halfs doing a dummy motion or other movement when they did not actually have the ball, defenders thought the ball was out of the scrum/ruck/maul and moved in front of the back foot and were subsequently penalised. In these situations, if the scrum-half was actually holding the ball when making a dummy, then the ball is actually out of the scrum/ruck/maul and it is now open play, therefore the defence can move forward.
 

Phil E


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Wot he said.

Penalty against hoops for crossing the line of touch before the ball has left the lineout.
 

Decorily

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Wot he said.

Penalty against hoops for crossing the line of touch before the ball has left the lineout.
Is the easy option...however how material is the offence?
 

Dickie E


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Is the easy option...however how material is the offence?
IMO, very material. Hoops #1 has shut down Black SH's options.

Aside: I wonder what they're feeding Black #1 :oops:
 

Decorily

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Player gets tricked into coming through early...appears to pull up as he figures he's potentially offside. Reciever passes ball cleanly to outfallf who is not under pressure. In my opinion it's play on with a word about timing at the next lineout.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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Player gets tricked into coming through early...appears to pull up as he figures he's potentially offside. Reciever passes ball cleanly to outfallf who is not under pressure. In my opinion it's play on with a word about timing at the next lineout.
I would agree with that approach o a warning if it was only 1 coming through but the wider guy is also cutting down the stand off's options in this instance so would tend to penalise.
 

BikingBud


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If that is blacks attacking within opponents 22 very material.

Referees should protect the space that is given in law, (it's given to allow space, time and to encourage and enable open rugby), not seek for reasons to diminish its importance.
 
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