Managing Repeated Cynical YCs

smeagol


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My game last weekend was a friendly college B side game - play was physical and fast, but a lot of mistakes due to inexperience.

I issued four YCs (3-1 split) for one particular sequence - I award a pen to the attackers <22m from the goal line, quick-tap, defender who had clearly not retreated 10m tackles the BC.

I'm not sure how else I could have managed the situation. I don't think going to RC would have been right in terms of the context of the game - if it were the league A-side game and the score was close, I would consider going further.

Eager for others' 2c.
 

Dickie E


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Unless the same player was involved twice (ie 2 yellow cards to same player) I think it would be harsh & unusual to pull a red card for this type of offence.
 

Decorily

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Unless the same player was involved twice (ie 2 yellow cards to same player) I think it would be harsh & unusual to pull a red card for this type of offence.
It could possibly be harsh and unusual to have 4 yellow cards for such offences also.
 

didds

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a few thoughts here, but as ever Im not the one with the whistle so my opinion is worth FA ;-)
maybe after the third instance of "not ten" (If I've interpreted the above correctly) it would have been time to have a word with the skipper and say "Im sensing a pattern here. Time for it to stop". Then a RC is more than fair.
And not afcting more harshly is maybe letting that side down too - if they've done this in a couple of "friendlies" and gotten away with it 9effectively) then ity will come as a hell of a shock when another ref has fewer qualms and whips out a RC - maybe even on the second occurrence .

didds
 

chbg


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I've given 3x YC in one match for this - all offences were within 3m of the PK. 2-1 in terms of teams. Having laid down my cards early on, I needed to remain consistent. The second offender, I discovered afterwards, was a League player, who learnt a Union Law that day. The sort of game where YCs had no particular effect on the score! And neither team made any adverse comment. In the same match, the same offence but 8-9m from the PK was played as Advantage and I would have come back only to a PK if necessary.

I ALWAYS chat to a player returning from a YC (apparently some referees do not), remind them that they are one stage closer to a RC and ensure that they understand their error (to prevent re-occurence).
 

smeagol


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It could possibly be harsh and unusual to have 4 yellow cards for such offences also.
IMO, if a side is defending close to their own goal line, such offenses veer into the realm of denying try-scoring opportunities - the offside line in the four occasions was at most 10m from the goal line, and the defenders were not marginally offside - they were at least 5m offside. I put such actions in the realm of "denying a try-scoring opportunity."

Each time I brought in the defender and then-skipper (due to injuries/subs, the side with three YCs had multiple captains), I explained that the card was not just for the offense, but due to the proximity to the goal line denying a try-scoring opportunity.

I ALWAYS chat to a player returning from a YC (apparently some referees do not), remind them that they are one stage closer to a RC and ensure that they understand their error (to prevent re-occurence).
If the player is returning to take up a position near me, I'll have a quick word. If I'm at a lineout and it's someone in the backline, I prefer to get on with it.
 

Dickie E


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I'm not sure 3 similar offences in an 80 game makes it a pattern. Noting too the 4th occurrence was the opposition so doesn't count in the pattern consideration.
And if truly a try scoring situation, PT should be considered too
 

Dickie E


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This from law 9:

When different players of the same team repeatedly commit the same offence, the referee gives a general caution to the team and if they then repeat the offence, the referee temporarily suspends the guilty player(s).

Suggests to me a RC is not an option for the OP
 

SimonSmith


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Did you speak to the Coaches after the game.

I had a similar experience back in the mists of time. D3 College, and the very bottom of D3. Competitive matrix match, so I held to management standards. One side responded, the other...didn't. Cards came out, including a red for a bad trip.

Coach afterwards was grateful, and said that a) standards had to be maintained and b) sometimes it's the only way players learn and can translate law into practice.
 

didds

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This from law 9:

When different players of the same team repeatedly commit the same offence, the referee gives a general caution to the team and if they then repeat the offence, the referee temporarily suspends the guilty player(s).

Suggests to me a RC is not an option for the OP

thats fair enough Dickie.
I wonder if the repeat-of-the-repeat scenario was considered by the law makers? And theyd rather presumed one YC for repeats would bring a halt to further repeats..

hmmm...
 

smeagol


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Did you speak to the Coaches after the game.

I had a similar experience back in the mists of time. D3 College, and the very bottom of D3. Competitive matrix match, so I held to management standards. One side responded, the other...didn't. Cards came out, including a red for a bad trip.

Coach afterwards was grateful, and said that a) standards had to be maintained and b) sometimes it's the only way players learn and can translate law into practice.

I did, both coaches floated the idea of making the B side matches more "developmental," and allowing a sub to come on for a YC. I told them that if they wanted to do that, then to make sure to communicate that to the referees well ahead of time.

This convo surprised me, given that the players will in theory be playing D1A rugby, and they need to be more disciplined.
 

SimonSmith


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I did, both coaches floated the idea of making the B side matches more "developmental," and allowing a sub to come on for a YC. I told them that if they wanted to do that, then to make sure to communicate that to the referees well ahead of time.

This convo surprised me, given that the players will in theory be playing D1A rugby, and they need to be more disciplined.
D1A B side? Bollocks. That means they are already D3 competent at the very least.
 

Rich_NL

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I ALWAYS chat to a player returning from a YC (apparently some referees do not), remind them that they are one stage closer to a RC and ensure that they understand their error (to prevent re-occurence).

This is a great preventative tip, thanks!
 

Ciaran Trainor


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Sounds, like you managed it reasonably well. It would serve no purpose to issue red cards for low level technical offences in a development friendly however a warning to captain, coach and players that you would expect repeat offenders to be permanently subbed after 10 minutes would work for me. I've done it before telling coach and captain, he's not coming back, do you understand me?
 
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