Match Payments

Simon Thomas


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Is petrol more expensive depending on region ??

Yes and even within Hampshire it varies on location, and if it is a motorway / trunk road you pay a premium.

The whole petrol pricing calculation seems to be very complicated and in some cases subjective. In my village we pay a premium of 4-5 p higher than I can buy petrol in Eastleigh or edge of Southampton.

When I go west to Somerset / Bristol petrol is always a lot cheaper than at home.
 

Simon Thomas


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Also enclosed is the scale of referee fees, you will note that they increase upwards as you climb the refereeing ladder towards eventual full time professional , the reason for this incremental scaling is because the RFU recognises the increased effort and commitment toward training/coaching and personal fitness that referees make. Your progress upward or downward will be managed by a dedicated team of assessors/match observers.

And of course the Assessors, Match Observers, Referee Coaches, Video filmers will also in this new world be paid again at increasing rates as we go up the levels reflecting the (usually) increased time and commitment as you go up the levels.
 

Simon Thomas


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I was talking about the schools I have reffed 2000 to date where there is no beer served.

At school in 1974-75 we had shandy served after the 1st XV matches served in half pint silver tankards for us and the opposition, and I think it was similar on our circuit - Dulwich, Kings Canterbury, Felstead, Uppingham, Hailebury, Wellington, etc
 

Simon Thomas


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(I didn't read the rest - too long!)

At the grass roots level the conceptual argument is that all the players are paying to play, and buy lots of their own kit, why shouldn't the referee, really.

At a kids clb game all the first aiders, coaches, team managers etc are voluntering their time to give the kids a game of rugby. why should the referee alone be paid.

Of course at the pro level, or at a top tier private schools it's the other way round, why should the ref be the only person NOT being paid.

and there's a difficult middle ground.

Panel and Group refs get all their kit supplied by RFU.
 

menace


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All, many of you have raised valid point to both sides.

If you're interested in how our association went about getting this issue on the radar and making significant steps foward, PM me with your personal email address (no I'm not from Kenya and I don't need your bank account details).
 

Browner

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I was talking about the schools I have reffed 2000 to date where there is no beer served.

At school in 1974-75 we had shandy served after the 1st XV matches served in half pint silver tankards for us and the opposition, and I think it was similar on our circuit - Dulwich, Kings Canterbury, Felstead, Uppingham, Hailebury, Wellington, etc

Such practice would be barred under rfu regs nowadays, so no shandy for U18s at these schools only coke!
 

Simon Thomas


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Such practice would be barred under rfu regs nowadays, so no shandy for U18s at these schools only coke!

At schools it is nothing to do with RFU as their matches come under ERFSU (Schools Union) - what RFU Regs do you refer to ?

The consumption of alcohol by minors is a legal and self-regulatory issue, and serving shandy, beer or wine to 17 and 18 year olds in a private situation is not illegal.
 

TheBFG


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so no shandy for U18s at these schools only coke!

yeah some of the private schools around here provide some "good shit" (apparently :wink: )
 

Drift


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$30 a game, flat rate across the metro games in Melbourne. $50 for the ones we have to travel a little further for, $80 for places like Albury.
 

Drift


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Not many senior clubs do that here. They're too tight to throw you a sausage off their BBQ! If you step up to their canteen they're super quick to put their hand out and take your cash! (About half junior clubs feed and water you).

Sometimes you just feel like you're just being used! And they wonder why they find it hard to retain refs for more than 3 or 4 years. They just get jack of being screwed.

A lot of the clubs I have good rapports with I will pre-pay for a 6 pack of beers to have in the changing rooms straight after the game and most of the time they won't take my cash. However I will always make sure I will pay for some food and beer after my debrief, I get paid $30 for whatever game I do so 4 times last year which is 12 minutes round trip from my house so it definitely didn't cost me that much money to go there.
 

Adam


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A lot of the clubs I have good rapports with I will pre-pay for a 6 pack of beers to have in the changing rooms straight after the game and most of the time they won't take my cash. However I will always make sure I will pay for some food and beer after my debrief, I get paid $30 for whatever game I do so 4 times last year which is 12 minutes round trip from my house so it definitely didn't cost me that much money to go there.

So in Melbourne that would have cost you $100!!!

It is true, Drift is very good, even got me a beer after his game when I popped by!
 

Shelflife


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(I didn't read the rest - too long!)

At the grass roots level the conceptual argument is that all the players are paying to play, and buy lots of their own kit, why shouldn't the referee, really.

At a kids clb game all the first aiders, coaches, team managers etc are voluntering their time to give the kids a game of rugby. why should the referee alone be paid.

Of course at the pro level, or at a top tier private schools it's the other way round, why should the ref be the only person NOT being paid.

and there's a difficult middle ground.

I understand your pov crossref, id offer the view that the ref has to travel to all of his games, usually on his own, will train on his own learn laws on his own and if hes lucky will only be hated by one team at the end of a match.

Its a bit of a lonely life for a ref, the players ,managers (many of whom are paid now) first aiders volunteers are part of a big club and can celebrate victory or lick their wounds together, refs dont have that high or elation in their game (a sense of satisfaction in having had a good game maybe) but no high fives and rounds of drinks at the bar when you win a big game.

Its a hard road in the middle of a wet and freezing winter game when the game is a poor one and the players wont listen and the cards come out, its not your fault but both teams hate you and its a two hour journey home in damp clothes because they forgot to turn on your shower and your not in the mood to take more comments in the bar, so you travel home hungry.

Its not always that gloomy :biggrin:, but it can be a lonely road, as i said earlier im not looking to be paid per match, but a decent milage rate, some properly fitting gear, a hot shower and a cuppa and a sandwich after every game isnt alot to ask for.
 

menace


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Bump.....

It can be done, it's not insurmountable to get reimbursement (payments).
But before I reveal what's happened in my neck of the woods..

(I didn't read the rest - too long!)

At the grass roots level the conceptual argument is that all the players are paying to play, and buy lots of their own kit, why shouldn't the referee, really.

At a kids clb game all the first aiders, coaches, team managers etc are voluntering their time to give the kids a game of rugby. why should the referee alone be paid.

Of course at the pro level, or at a top tier private schools it's the other way round, why should the ref be the only person NOT being paid.

and there's a difficult middle ground.
I'd address this by saying that those volunteers are directly contributing their efforts to their partners/family/kids life (and their friends)...it's helping their family members chosen club to help give them opportunities in sport.... That's why I volunteer to help my sons chosen club (I'm currently his coach....though pity so many other parents in the team and club are so apathetic to help!).
Not so when it's the referee....
But that's my opinion.


All, many of you have raised valid point to both sides.

If you're interested in how our association went about getting this issue on the radar and making significant steps foward, PM me with your personal email address (no I'm not from Kenya and I don't need your bank account details).

Now for the developments in my part of the woods....after 2 years of lobbying and negotiations our association members are now receiving match payments, though in my opinion it's still just partial cost recovery/reimbursement. (Previous to that there was a further 2 years of internal lobbying and strategic thinking and approach to the issue. )

What it means is that 'user pays' is important in this day and age, and can be made to work. Yes there were struggles, obstructions a dissenters.

It's not a lot of money, and only added a nominal amount to their season fees (in the order of less than $10 per person).
Here are the details of what we will be receiving.
http://www.actrra.org.au/referee-payments.html
 

Browner

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For clarity menace, are travelling expenses ( say distance x $rate ) additionally recovered ?
 

menace


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For clarity menace, are travelling expenses ( say distance x $rate ) additionally recovered ?

Yes, travel expenses is additional. But you only receive those expenses if you travel outside of the ACT/state. Most games are within the state and will usually will be upto 25km one way. So you're only getting travel expenses when you're travelling more than 100km round trip.
 

viper492

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Menace, I think you (and others) hit the nail on the head when you said payments bring referees into it.

I probably never would have picked up refereeing if not for match payments and, having just moved down to ACT, probably wouldn't continue reffing if there weren't any... I love doing it, but without the incentive to put up with those absolute tosser coaches (one of whom I probably am these days) and (sometimes) crowds , I wouldn't be refereeing... Admittedly coaching now makes it difficult and the age group I'd be reffing is probably the one I'm coaching in but there's then that slight incentive to do lower age groups and different abilities where the rugby itself isn't as enjoyable as more skillful older juniors (currently only ref juniors) :)
 
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