Maul from restart
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Magenta.
Normally if a maul ends unsuccessfully, the side that didn't take the ball into the maul gets the throw in.
There is an exception if the maul was created immediately from a kick eg if a player catches a kick and the maul immediately forms around him. So far so good.
BUT there is an exception to the exception, if the ball is caught from a KO or restart and in that case the kicking side get the throw in.
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Dickie E
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there is none in 2018 but there is in 2017 ... but I'm sure you know that
I know what's in the Laws and what decision I would make
And I know what decision Luke Pearce made yesterday
But I am wondering what decision everyone else would actually make in practice if it happens in their match tomorrow. And what that's based on
I should have set up as a poll, really.
What would you give, Dickie ?
And I know what decision Luke Pearce made yesterday
But I am wondering what decision everyone else would actually make in practice if it happens in their match tomorrow. And what that's based on
I should have set up as a poll, really.
What would you give, Dickie ?
CrouchTPEngage
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This has come up before, last year in a Northampton away game in France.
What helped me then, and what might help other refs is to remember that the key is "choosing to kick" versus "required to kick". If a team chooses to kick the ball , in open play, then they risk losing the resulting maul-from-kick. If a team is forced to kick ( restart ) then its only fair that they get the resulting scrum from an unsuccessful-maul-from-kick.
Another thing, I've spotted some junior refs getting wrong : The catcher has to be immediately wrapped into a maul. So if he catches, then takes 4 steps sideways and is then (and only then ) wrapped, then he has taken the ball into a maul.
Hope this helps.
What helped me then, and what might help other refs is to remember that the key is "choosing to kick" versus "required to kick". If a team chooses to kick the ball , in open play, then they risk losing the resulting maul-from-kick. If a team is forced to kick ( restart ) then its only fair that they get the resulting scrum from an unsuccessful-maul-from-kick.
Another thing, I've spotted some junior refs getting wrong : The catcher has to be immediately wrapped into a maul. So if he catches, then takes 4 steps sideways and is then (and only then ) wrapped, then he has taken the ball into a maul.
Hope this helps.
Dickie E
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What if its a penalty kick. Team is "required to kick".
CrouchTPEngage
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Good question.
1) Is a penalty-kick "open-play" as required in law ?
In which case, I would argue that the resulting scrum from a unsuccessful-maul-from-kick goes to the kicking team.
Open to debate though. I agree.
In the 2017 Law a mail from a PK was certainly different from a maul from a Restart.
But crouchtpengage logic would treat them the same
And as we know the 2018 Law doesn't distinguish. Or doesn't distinguish clearly in any event
Regrading the OP , so far I think everyone gives the scrum to magenta
But crouchtpengage logic would treat them the same
And as we know the 2018 Law doesn't distinguish. Or doesn't distinguish clearly in any event
Regrading the OP , so far I think everyone gives the scrum to magenta
A PK is not a "kick off or re-start" so the catching team get the throw in.
I suppose you could argue that a PK is a form of re-start, but I don't think it is what the majority of players and supporters would count as a "re-start".
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Flish
Referees in England
If you extend 'forced to kick' to 'forced to kick a distance' then you get closer to where you want to be, a penalty kick could be a kick to yourself, any other restart kick has to go (some) distance
[LAWS]Definitions
Restart kick: The method of restarting play with a drop-kick after a score or a touch-down.[/LAWS]
Slightly off topic, but do you really call them "magenta" during the match?
I found colours with two syllables a bit too long to shout out!
Agree. "Yellow" is always gold. "Orange" tends to turn into red etc.
I also never call one team "blue" and the other "black". I am easily confused.
It is actually tricky
Luke Pearce called them Quins and Saracens
Sometimes you will hear Quins and <colour>
I twice heard the AR call in Red Red Red (for Sarries) I didn't notice him having to call in a Quins PK so don't know what he would have said
When I ref them (the amateur club of course) I call them Quins. If the oppo have a nice one syllable name I would use that, for balance, else use their colour, to be practical
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OB - I completely agree with you and I believe that is what the law was until 2017.
The 2018 law contained no changes.
But in the 2018 law book the wording I quoted is "kick in open play" and the only wording that excludes a restart also excludes a penalty.
The 2018 law contained no changes.
But in the 2018 law book the wording I quoted is "kick in open play" and the only wording that excludes a restart also excludes a penalty.
Flish
Referees in England
Learnt this one on Saturday, luckily it was just the half time score that I got the wrong way round, and we had a joke about it. That said not sure what the alternative would have been as the team names were not friendly to be being abbreviated