Browner made a good observation in a separate thread. In a nutshell the Ref has 3 options:
- Maul deliberately collapsed - call it. PK
- Maul accidentally collapsed and ball available - use it.
- Maul accidentally collapsed and ball not available - blow it. Turnover ball.
You're not alone, as I know it's a fault of mine. I would guess that my count of PKs for deliberately collapsing a maul is very low. I'm pretty sure I'm missing most of them.I don't know about in your parts, but in my parts I'd say we refs are using too much of option 3 when option 1 should have been used (and I'm guilty). Sometimes it's hard to see if the maul was pulled down but I'm sure more often than not there's been a sneaky pulling down of the maul. In the 2nd half of the season just passed, I was more attentive of the defenders pulling down the maul and if any maul was suspect I was more inclined to PK than turnover.
Browner made a good observation in a separate thread. In a nutshell the Ref has 3 options:
- Maul deliberately collapsed - call it. PK
- Maul accidentally collapsed and ball available - use it.
- Maul accidentally collapsed and ball not available - blow it. Turnover ball.
Happy to clarify, maul called - then whenever Red were in possession, the Blue tactic was to choke tackle the rede player, preventing them from offloading, then drag the red player to ground. If they were able to get their hands on the ball, Blue simply hung onto it on the ground. Their view was that thus was all quite legal, the player in possession of the ball, or wrapped around a red player simply hung on until a scrum was awarded in their favour. Reading the views, in thus situation I think I can safely follow a pulling down maul penalty. There is not question Blue pulled the red players to ground. Hope this clarifies the situation.
BW]
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Marauder said:Did Blue go to ground with Red?
Browner made a good observation in a separate thread. In a nutshell the Ref has 3 options:
- Maul deliberately collapsed - call it. PK
- Maul accidentally collapsed and ball available - use it.
- Maul accidentally collapsed and ball not available - blow it. Turnover ball.
Taff, I think this is a nice succinct conclusion, as is the suggestion that certainly I've been missing out on 3, its going top of my every game 'three things to work on this game' preparation going forward
Thanks, but I just copied it from a reply Browner posted in a separate thread. :biggrin:Taff, I think this is a nice succinct conclusion, as is the suggestion that certainly I've been missing out on 3, its going top of my every game 'three things to work on this game' preparation going forward
Glasgow are claiming that one of their players was subjected to a choke tackle over the weekend.
to reference an earlier post, he was literally choked to the point of being rendered unconscious and necessitating lengthy medical treatment.
What your missing is significant.
If the ball carrier goes to ground. He is ALLOWED to go to ground. 17.2(c) whilst other players are not allowed to do so. If the law intended 17.2(c) to be interpreted as the ball player can be brought to ground (tackled) then there is no way that is the wording even the IRB would have chosen.
Pulling a ball carrier to ground is, almost certainly, likely to collapse the maul. If his is bound to other players how likely is it that he and he alone could be dragged (as in the OP) to the ground without the players bound to the ball carrier going down to. SO 17.2 (e) is going to come into play.
Are you being obtuse with this bit "refer to 17.6(g) "If the ball carrier in a maul goes to ground ... etc"
Is this act "collapsing the maul"? If so why is it not sanctioned as such? If only the BC goes to ground I wouldn't consider the maul collapsed.
If the BC gets a knee to the ground he must make the ball available "immediately" else a scrum must be ordered. It does not require the opponent who has the BC wrapped to release him."
Clearly the act of the ball carrier going to ground is legal. The laws say he may do so! But there is a big difference between a play choosing to go to ground and being taken to ground.
Your last sentence applies to a maul that has collapsed with no fault. If a player is considered guilty of collapsing a maul he will be pinged for that.