Morriarty Red (Argentina Vs Wales)

[Marc Wakeham]

WRU participation chief, Ryan Jones was defending Morriarty's action where RM put and Argentine player in a head lock and ignored the AR demanded that he release the player, resulting in a red card at the end of the AvW game on Saturday. When challenged on Twitter the WRU employee replied:

"Grow up you dipstick!! Seen more shocking behaviour from my 3 and 6 yr old play fighting in the garden. Silly yes, wreckless yes but don’t make it something it’s not."

I'm not sure that:
1: defending RM's actions is going to encourage parents to get little Johnny to play rugby.
2: getting the public on message is going to be difficult when you start calling them dipsticks.

I'm not too sure what Jones's boss will make of his tweet when he reads it today.

 

[Cross]

I'm porbably gonna go against what most think by saying this but I am not sure the choke itself was that bad. Chokes are hard to judge if you are not involved.
You could be holding someone with literally zero risk of anything and it could look like you were strangling him.
Just as a reference, if someone wants to hurt you and (for whatever reason) you have to stop him without hurting him at all, you'd try to do something very similar to what Moriarty did.


What is unacceptable is for him to disregard the AR 3 times.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

He pulled the guy up by the choke. It is contact above the shoulder. What more do you want?

 

[crossref]

It was bizarre .. he seemed to hold on until he was absolutely sure it had gone on long enough to get a RC

 

[DocY]

I thought he was very restrained and have a bit of sympathy for him.

He was the victim of a cheap shot and reacted to it - IME the other way players react is to throw a punch.

As for it being dangerous - it was a static hold, not a high tackle against a guy running at full tilt (or even running at all). To me, Jaco's assertion that it was "very dangerous" sounded like he was trying to justify the card.

 

[Phil E]

He is almost a foot taller than the man he had in a choke hold, who was on his tip toes trying not to choke.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

It is strange given his dad and uncle were such easy going characters.

 

[Cross]

He pulled the guy up by the choke. It is contact above the shoulder. What more do you want?

Red card, couple of games tops i'd say.
For me the main problem here is disregarding the AR 3 times on an issue like this. I am not claiming it was dangerous, because i do not know, but the message is "i am here, i am stronger and i do whatever i want". That cannot go unpunished.

Let me give you a very down to earth example i think some, hopefully not many, can relate to. If i am at a pub and i want to stop a friend of mine from getting into a fight i would catch him in a very similar way. The position over the neck looks very similar to a choke but you are no applying pressure there. You are just using that area to immobilize him.
What i am trying to say is that it can look worse than it is. Of course it is not ok.

Him and sanchez appeared to make peace later, so i guess it was just a hold, not a choke.

One question tho: Assume for a second he is hurting Sanchez, chocking him, and assume the closest Arg player is a small one that with brute strength couldn't possibly overpower moriarty stop the choke. If he considers that sanchez physical integrity is at risk (say blacking out was a realistic scenario), what do the rules allow him (this third player) to do?
This is a very extreme circumstance, i know. I am curious if there is any place for the use of violence to stop a player from hurting another one.

Do the rules contemplate in any way the use of force to defend yourself/team mates if the attack is brutal enough?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

It is strange given his dad and uncle were such easy going characters.

The apple does not fall far from the tree!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

He is almost a foot taller than the man he had in a choke hold, who was on his tip toes trying not to choke.

Exactly. I seriously worry when refs feel there was "nothing to see".

 

[thepercy]

He does look like he is trying to apply pressure, but is using poor technique. Needs a little time rolling in the jiu-jitsu gym. The arm that is trapped doesn't help, and he would be better off to lock the choking arm onto the bicep, and using the free arm to push the head forward. Then the blue player will be forced to tap or go to sleep.

 

[irishref]

Player, off the ball, has an opponent around the neck. The AR runs onto the pitch and tells him 3 times to release, which he ignores.

That's red every time for me.

 

[didds]

I'm porbably gonna go against what most think by saying this but I am not sure the choke itself was that bad. Chokes are hard to judge if you are not involved.
You could be holding someone with literally zero risk of anything and it could look like you were strangling him.

The problem being is that how do you tell the difference? So maybe a non-tolerance policy ensures the extreme ends that do matter don;t occur ... even "by accident".

I don;t see it as much to expect that players are not grabbed around the neck.



didds

 

[Marc Wakeham]

He does look like he is trying to apply pressure, but is using poor technique.

I never said he was bright!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

4 weeks.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/ross-moriarty-banned-world-rugby-14808140

 

[dickell]

The problem being is that how do you tell the difference? So maybe a non-tolerance policy ensures the extreme ends that do matter don;t occur ... even "by accident".

I don;t see it as much to expect that players are not grabbed around the neck.



didds

When I was still refereeing way back in the 80s I was doing a Quins side against somebody; a Quins flanker (whom I subsequently met when he was a county coach) on three occasions put a choke hold round the neck of an opponent. On three occasions I penalised him and told him not to do it again. This was long before today's concern about contact in the neck/head area, and it was before cards. Simple common sense told me that it was dangerous. Today it would be YC after two at most; the third would not have happened.