Munster vs Southern Kings 14 February 2020. - Yellow card

[L'irlandais]

I believe it is Georgian referee Nika Amashukeli’s first season in the Pro 14. Friday night lights in Cork city, with a handy sized crowd of home supporters.

Having emptied their sub bench 7 minutes earlier, Red are penalised at the scrum. The players retreat, only for handbags to break out with both packs getting involved. Red 20 (openside flanker) runs back 20m to get involved. While trying to drag a teammate out of the brawl he got an elbow in the head for his trouble.
With 70 minutes on the clock, the ref consults the TMO and then Black6 (Lusanda Badiyana) is issued with a yellow card.

My thoughts were, one the elbow wasn’t intentional, it was a bit of a mêlée. Two, Red 20 had no business getting involved and should have remained where he was. I remember Owen Farrell getting unfairly carded for running to join a mêlée in not so dissimilar circumstances, earlier this season when Saracens came to Limerick.

While I am not suggesting Red 20 might have been carded, I felt just having a word with Black6 and sending Red20 and his captain away, would have been fairer.

 

[L'irlandais]

In fact it was his very first match in Pro 14
[LAWS]Match Officials
Referee: Nika Amashukeli (Georgian RU, competition debut)
Assistant Referees: Sean Gallagher & Johnny Erskine (both IRFU)
TMO: Charles Samson (SRU)[/LAWS]

A video of him coaching another ref in Georgia.

 

[beckett50]

Any video? I'm sure he was guided by his TMO and ARs in the decision making process?

 

[L'irlandais]

The only full match replay I can find is behind a paywall. Maybe the second yellow card will make the extended highlight reel, if the editor can see past the 10 tries. Yes of course he was aided by the team, but sometimes they can lead you astray. Red20 shouldn’t have been involved, had he stayed out he wouldn’t have copped a stray elbow. So his Captain coming looking for a card I find very unwelcome.

 

[Shelflife]

It was the TMO that brought it to his attention and focused on the "elbow" to the head, It was more a push with the arm than an elbow to the head. Never a YC imo and considering it was Red 20 that started the whole thing it was pretty harsh.

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/...mely-soft-yellow-card-against-munster/624817#

 

[L'irlandais]

To add insult to injury, some Munster players applauded the referee’s decision as if the card was more than deserved. One day Chris Cloete’s sticking his nose in where it’s not wanted will back fire on him.

 

[chbg]

It was the TMO that brought it to his attention and focused on the "elbow" to the head, It was more a push with the arm than an elbow to the head. Never a YC imo and considering it was Red 20 that started the whole thing it was pretty harsh.

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/...mely-soft-yellow-card-against-munster/624817#

Agreed. YC for Red 20 as well would have been appropriate.

 

[didds]

Red20 shouldn’t have been involved, had he stayed out he wouldn’t have copped a stray elbow.

so he shouldnt have tried to prevent his own team mate from further escalation of the melee? (from the OP description)


didds

 

[Pablo]

Agreed. YC for Red 20 as well would have been appropriate.

100%. Red 20 is clearly an aggressor in this situation, by virtue of grabbing Badiyana from behind. The elbow to the head is as much Cloete's fault as Badiyana's. A fairer outcome would have been to yellow card both.

 

[Arabcheif]

so he shouldnt have tried to prevent his own team mate from further escalation of the melee? (from the OP description)


didds

Red 20 hasn't tried to prevent escalation or attempted to de-escalate. He's grabbed his opponent by the scruff of the neck. That said I see it of more a failed strike with the elbow. So Y/C for both for me.

 

[didds]

Red 20 hasn't tried to prevent escalation or attempted to de-escalate. He's grabbed his opponent by the scruff of the neck. That said I see it of more a failed strike with the elbow. So Y/C for both for me.

????????????

The OP says

"Red 20 (openside flanker) runs back 20m to get involved. While trying to drag a teammate out of the brawl he got an elbow in the head for his trouble."


??????????????????

didds

 

[Phil E]

If there are two people fighting just leave them to it.
Other players running in to "break it up" can only escalate things.

 

[didds]

If there are two people fighting just leave them to it.
Other players running in to "break it up" can only escalate things.

what wheen there are several... players shouldnt stand aside and try and stop their teammates ?

didds

 

[Phil E]

what wheen there are several... players shouldnt stand aside and try and stop their teammates ?

didds

It always starts off with just two.

 

[Rich_NL]

Also, players standing nearby tend to just "front up" but keep things from escalating beyond chest-bumps and shirt grabs; I always take a step back, specifically to keep the wider view and to catch the players running in to escalate things (anything cardable at the flashpoint is visible anyway). I've yet to see someone sprint in to a conflict just to pull a team mate away!

 

[Arabcheif]

????????????

The OP says

"Red 20 (openside flanker) runs back 20m to get involved. While trying to drag a teammate out of the brawl he got an elbow in the head for his trouble."


??????????????????

didds

Well it seems the OP is talking about a different incident than in the video shared. Red 20, grabs an opposition number by the scruff of the neck, then grabs his shirt and drags him out. Not his team mate.

 

[didds]

It always starts off with just two.

yes


and when its > 2 and player X wants to try and remove his TEAMATE from the fracas that is as bad? is that what I am reading here? Just wnat to be sure?

didds

- - - Updated - - -

Well it seems the OP is talking about a different incident than in the video shared. Red 20, grabs an opposition number by the scruff of the neck, then grabs his shirt and drags him out. Not his team mate.

i've no idea. I was responding to the OP

didds

- - - Updated - - -

Also, players standing nearby tend to just "front up" but keep things from escalating beyond chest-bumps and shirt grabs; I always take a step back, specifically to keep the wider view and to catch the players running in to escalate things (anything cardable at the flashpoint is visible anyway). I've yet to see someone sprint in to a conflict just to pull a team mate away!

strangely I have.

there's a thing.

didds

 

[chbg]

i've no idea. I was responding to the OP

didds

There is video evidence m'lud.

 

[didds]

so is the video evidence the same case as discussed in the OP? There is a suggestion above/previously that it isnt.

If it is the sasme then the cideo soesnt seem to match the O)P's description of pulling a team mate away so I doubty it is the same.

???????

didds

 

[L'irlandais]

Didds,
It appears my beered up Saturday night version of the incident is somewhat erroneous. However I cannot edit the post, so you’ll have to excuse my misleading account. No malice intended.