[Kit] Neoprene lifting supports

Flish


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Had a sub query his kit with me prematch yesterday (if am honest not sure I would have noticed otherwise), he was wearing neoprene thigh ‘supports’ with a lifting support built in, purpose is basically the same as the bandaged lifting supports used by jumpers which we do allow. The lump within the support was pretty hard, but so are whatever they strap on normally. Has anyone experienced these before, did you allow them, and is there a shoe iris reference?

In this I said no, I only had my phone pitch side and time enough to check the laws as opposed to clothing regs, and saw nothing in law that obviously allowed it, and decided better safe than sorry. Team and player were fine with it.
 

taff426

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We’ve had another thread regarding this previously, I think (don’t quote me) the general consensus was to let them be used.

I’ve also come across them a few times. Personally, I let them go (doesn’t mean I am correct however).
 

Flish


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Thanks, just looking for some sort of consensus, wasn’t that I had any reason to be unhappy with them, but I couldn’t see a reason to allow them either
 

Volun-selected


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I've seen a few adverts popping up selling this item, some from reputable rugby equipment sellers so I suspect we may see this more often.

WR doesn't explicitly ban this item, though does mention some thickness restrictions on Reg 12.

Law 4 does mention they can wear "w[FONT=fs_blakeregular]ashable supports made of elasticated or compressible materials" and neoprene lifters sound like they fall under this:[/FONT]

Until the Powers That Be rule,maybe we should look to Law 4 and treat these as we do for ankle supports and such?
[LAWS]4.5 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]A player may not wear:[/FONT]
a) Any item contaminated by blood.
b) Any sharp or abrasive item.
c) Any items containing buckles, clips, rings, hinges, zippers, screws, bolts or rigid material or projection not otherwise permitted under this law.
d) Jewellery.
e) Gloves.
f) Shorts with padding sewn into them.
g) Any item that is normally permitted in law but, in the referee’s opinion, is liable to cause injury.​
[/LAWS]
And 4.6 allows us to revise the ruling at any time.
[LAWS]4.6 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]The referee has the power to decide at any time that part of a player’s clothing is dangerous or illegal. In this case, the referee must order the player to remove the item. The player must not take part in the match until the item is removed or rendered harmless.[/FONT][/LAWS]
 

Flish


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Yup, I read through these, to me a ‘support’ is something to support the players body / injury etc - not another player, and the no padded shorts made the think that something as hard as a roll of coins strapped to their thigh might make it a no go (but again no worse than what they strap on with tape)
 

Marc Wakeham


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... The lump within the support was pretty hard,..?

In this I said no, I only had my phone pitch side and time enough to check the laws as opposed to clothing regs, and saw nothing in law that obviously allowed it, and decided better safe than sorry. Team and player were fine with it.

That's the bit that concerns me.
c) Any items containing buckles, clips, rings, hinges, zippers, screws, bolts or rigid material or projection not otherwise permitted under this law.

And


Law 4 does mention they can wear "w[FONT=fs_blakeregular]ashable supports made of elasticated or compressible materials"

Only you can answer how hard / rigid and how compressible.
[/FONT]
 

Flish


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I would argue not compressible, at all. But just as hard as the traditional ‘lump’ strapped on by bandages. I have no idea what that is to be honest, ask for a squeeze at your games this weekend and see whether you’d want your head hitting it in a tackle :-(
 

Camquin

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As far as I can see law 4 does not mention lifting blocks - so all lifting blocks are illegal.
But I would suspect you would get blank looks or worse if you asked a forward to remove them.
 

Flish


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As far as I can see law 4 does not mention lifting blocks - so all lifting blocks are illegal.
But I would suspect you would get blank looks or worse if you asked a forward to remove them.

Yup, like many things, accepted, if not specifically allowed, which makes life more complex later!
 

Pinky


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For me it depends on whether they are compressible. If so, then OK, but if not - and these neoprene ones look like the block is quite firm - then no - and than includes bandaged on lifting supports - they need to be soft too.
 

Flish


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I forwarded this product to my society who in turn forwarded it upstream to two referee managers, currently no response. However my society have recommended I continue to say no to them until they are confirmed as approved.

Offered in case helps anyone
 

Zebra1922


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For me it depends on whether they are compressible. If so, then OK, but if not - and these neoprene ones look like the block is quite firm - then no - and than includes bandaged on lifting supports - they need to be soft too.

Do you tell most forwards to remove lifting blocks in your games? I'm not saying this is wrong, it's just not in line with most other refereeing I see so I'm interested in if you treat this differently and what your Society guidance is.

Personally I think they are illegal (both the shorts and commonly used blocks) but i'm not going out on a limb to be the only referee who refuses to allow lifting blocks if it is accepted practice to allow them.
 

crossref


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Perhaps I am doing it wrong .. but I have never inspected a lifting block :chin:
 

Flish


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Nor I, till last weekend when I compared the ‘compressibility’ of the questioned kit and the traditional lifting blocks / strapping as a comparison - I was surprised
 

tewdric


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Banning lifting in the lineout might well reduce tight five weight and alleviate the head injury issue. Just saying.
 

buff


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I would think it would bring back late 80's early 90's second rows who had to use bulk to fight to win their ball. A Maro Itoje body type would have been eaten alive when I started playing.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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I would have thought, on the back of professionalism, an ability to train, rest, spend hours in the gym and have access to correct nutrition and "supplements" are what has increased the weight of players generally. That increase has occurred most rapidly and broadly in the last 22 years. There are blokes playing L7 who are a lot bigger than when I played 30 years ago.

That said there was always freaky players pre lifting.

Bayfield, Cutler, Tom Lawton (hooker), Milne but they couldn't run the way blokes do now.

Colin "Pine Tree" Meads was only 6'3" - immensely strong from sheep activities :biggrin: but no giant and not a product of pre-lifting.

I think I read that only 3 of the 1905 invincible a were over 15st.

Rocky Marciano was 14.5st

People are just bigger.
 

OB..


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According to Marshall's book, in 1871 "The English 20 in the match averaged 12 stone 3 pounds per man."
One of the forwards in 1879 was C Gurdon: " he was one of the most massive and muscular forwards that ever stripped, and averaged about 13 stone 7 pound when in hard training. "
 
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