[Law] New Urban Myth - Only a prop can take a knee!

[Flish]

Out of the mouth of another prop, in response to a player taking the knee whilst waiting for a scrum restart.

However this is the same player who refused to bind to his hooker and setup a scrum because he didn’t have to until time was on (I’d taken time off and told them it wouldn’t go back on till the ball went in after a number of mysterious time wasting resets with 5 mins to go)

 

[Decorily]

Out of the mouth of another prop, in response to a player taking the knee whilst waiting for a scrum restart.

However this is the same player who refused to bind to his hooker and setup a scrum because he didn’t have to until time was on (I’d taken time off and told them it wouldn’t go back on till the ball went in after a number of mysterious time wasting resets with 5 mins to go)

Personally I wouldn't agree with your 'method' of time management!
As I see it we shouldn't be playing rugby while the clock is stopped, I'd agree with the prop in this instance.

 

[Flish]

Personally I wouldn't agree with your 'method' of time management!
As I see it we shouldn't be playing rugby while the clock is stopped, I'd agree with the prop in this instance.

They weren’t playing rugby when the clock was running, this was the third reset, none had got to engagement, and the oppos deserved a fair chance to play their scrum and try and get the score back that they needed. Do you really think cynical time wasting is ok?

 

[Balones]

Cynical time wasting is not okay and you should certainly take time off to deal with the matter and warn, but when you are expecting players to participate in actions that constitute ‘play’ then time should be on. Failure to engage or waste time should be penalised appropriately. Failure to bind can be penalised. You say that this was the third reset. If you thought it was time wasting why didn’t you penalise? 9.7(d)

 

[Decorily]

Do you really think cynical time wasting is ok?

Of course not!!

 

[Dickie E]

what does "taking the knee" mean in this context? Retieing a boot lace? Injured? Having a rest?

 

[Decorily]

Cynical time wasting is not okay and you should certainly take time off to deal with the matter and warn, but when you are expecting players to participate in actions that constitute ‘play’ then time should be on. Failure to engage or waste time should be penalised appropriately. Failure to bind can be penalised. You say that this was the third reset. If you thought it was time wasting why didn’t you penalise? 9.7(d)

Agree

 

[Flish]

what does "taking the knee" mean in this context? Retieing a boot lace? Injured? Having a rest?

Injury of some kind, wanting the physio

 

[Flish]

Cynical time wasting is not okay and you should certainly take time off to deal with the matter and warn, but when you are expecting players to participate in actions that constitute ‘play’ then time should be on. Failure to engage or waste time should be penalised appropriately. Failure to bind can be penalised. You say that this was the third reset. If you thought it was time wasting why didn’t you penalise? 9.7(d)

Because I wasn’t suspicious until the third engagement failed (scrums had been poor and mismatched all game), so I chose to remove their motivation - something that has worked well for me in the past

 

[Balones]

Because I wasn’t suspicious until the third engagement failed (scrums had been poor and mismatched all game), so I chose to remove their motivation - something that has worked well for me in the past

If you weren’t suspicious until the third time then you had no reason to stop the clock up until then. If on the third one you are suspicious then stop the clock and warn that you are getting the idea that there is time wasting going on and that you are now likely to penalise for any delays. If the stoppages are genuine then unfortunately ‘tough’ on the losing side.

 

[TigerCraig]

This is one of the things that can be tough here in Aust where many games have no added time for any reason.

 

[Balones]

Injury of some kind, wanting the physio

So time was off anyway? Can’t see the problem? He can’t be time wasting if time is off.

 

[Balones]

This is one of the things that can be tough here in Aust where many games have no added time for any reason.

This may not be of relevance to this specific scenario/thread but I am intrigued as to what level/type of games these ‘many games’ are?

 

[Flish]

If you weren’t suspicious until the third time then you had no reason to stop the clock up until then. If on the third one you are suspicious then stop the clock and warn that you are getting the idea that there is time wasting going on and that you are now likely to penalise for any delays. If the stoppages are genuine then unfortunately ‘tough’ on the losing side.

Yup, that’s one way, and like I said I didn’t stop the clock till I was sure. Your route or mine, I got the desired end result, unnecessary, but got there. Not the point I was making originally, but a valid sideline!

 

[Flish]

So time was off anyway? Can’t see the problem? He can’t be time wasting if time is off.

Separate incident, he was trying to claim that only props could take a knee / go down injured, ie that i couldn’t stop the watch to allow treatment! This was long before he tried to force my hand at the time wasting scrum - just trying to highlight some of the oddities players genuinely believe

 

[crossref]

Separate incident, he was trying to claim that only props could take a knee / go down injured, ie that i couldn’t stop the watch to allow treatment! This was long before he tried to force my hand at the time wasting scrum - just trying to highlight some of the oddities players genuinely believe

And, incidentally, the oddities in the strategies some refs deploy !

 

[Dickie E]

This may not be of relevance to this specific scenario/thread but I am intrigued as to what level/type of games these ‘many games’ are?

most underage games and many adult games that have a defined finish time to facilitate commencing the next game on time. There have been instances where a serious ambulance job injury happens early in the 2nd half and that's the game over.

 

[TigerCraig]

This may not be of relevance to this specific scenario/thread but I am intrigued as to what level/type of games these ‘many games’ are?

Every junior game and senior games below first grade. Our lower grade games have defined start and finish times to make sure First grade start on time

I should mention that unlike the British system we have the whole club playing at the same venue against another whole club, rather than our 1sts, 2nds, 3rds etc all at different venues against different clubs all kicking off at 3pm

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Agree with the general thrust. Time off, play is not an option.

At the third scrum you detected an issue. "Guys, we engage when you are ready but be careful Don't let me think you're wasting time".

Also remember YOU are sole judge of time.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Separate incident, he was trying to claim that only props could take a knee / go down injured, ie that i couldn’t stop the watch to allow treatment! This was long before he tried to force my hand at the time wasting scrum - just trying to highlight some of the oddities players genuinely believe

I doubt he "genuinely believed" anything. He was probably trying it on.