Newcastle RC

belladonna

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Don't worry it will be struck down by the DC by applying mitigation 😁
 
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Stu10


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My first thought is that he is very upright going into contact... Until this behaviour changes, the risk of RC is always there.
 

BikingBud


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Second into the tackle, ball carrier already stopped, second hit, arm tucked, shoulder to head. Always tall and no change in height.

Nailed on red for me.

In case of any comparison to Steward it is not even close.


Why confuse the issue by trying to introduce a get out clause that does not apply a real penalty for clear and obvious foul play?
 

belladonna

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Why did the referee say mitigation could not be applied after it was confirmed there was no attempt to wrap?
 

Stu10


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Why did the referee say mitigation could not be applied after it was confirmed there was no attempt to wrap?
I believe a no wrap tackle is considered to be intentional, therefore no mitigation. Generally speaking, no arm shoulder charges never get mitigation. The link below is specific to shoulder charges regarding the head contact process.

 

BCH24

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But if you use the Ben Earl red card defense of 'my arm was at my side as I was targetting the ball' then the wrap/no wrap isn't relevant. The first tackler pushed the head into the shoulder of the second tackler. That was the mitigation they should have stuck with surely.
 

belladonna

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I believe a no wrap tackle is considered to be intentional, therefore no mitigation. Generally speaking, no arm shoulder charges never get mitigation. The link below is specific to shoulder charges regarding the head contact process.

Thanks for this, Stu. The video appears to be out of date though? It's part of the Head Contact Process from March 2021, and isn't included in the most recent guidance from March 2023.

Assuming the 2021 guidance has been superseded, isn't the only possible conclusion that shoulder charging with no wrap is considered "(highly) reckless" so mitigation cannot be applied under the 2023 guidance?

 

Stu10


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Thanks for this, Stu. The video appears to be out of date though? It's part of the Head Contact Process from March 2021, and isn't included in the most recent guidance from March 2023.

Assuming the 2021 guidance has been superseded, isn't the only possible conclusion that shoulder charging with no wrap is considered "(highly) reckless" so mitigation cannot be applied under the 2023 guidance?

Somehow is missed the new version.

This new version actually makes things easier for us... "Mitigation will not apply for intentional or always-illegal acts of foul play."

A shoulder charge is always illegal, whether high or not... No mitigation!

In contrast, a tackle with wrap is only illegal if it's high.

Interesting that there is now no mention of "reckless", which has an element of subjectivity.
 

crossref


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I am actually thinking that this referral process may be quite a good one. Get them off the pitch for the yellow card. Let the TMO work through all the frameworks with plenty of time to decide. Upgrade it to red if necessary
 

didds

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My first thought is that he is very upright going into contact... Until this behaviour changes, the risk of RC is always there.
This. dont want a RC? dont leave your shoulder/head etc anywhere near where the BCs head Its not as if he looked to trackle the knees and the BC got knocked 2 feet downwards .

And wrap your arms. FFS.

RC every day of the week.
Lets stop giving cop out excuses to not award a RC.
 

belladonna

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This new version actually makes things easier for us... "Mitigation will not apply for intentional or always-illegal acts of foul play."

Oh, good spot!

This totally explains the referee's decision in this case, and I really hope the DC doesn't mess things up by overturning it.

It makes me wonder...

Given that this new guidance is dated March 9, 2023, shouldn't the DC have been using it in the Freddie Steward case? The match was on Sat March 18th, and the hearing was the following Tuesday, March 21st.

And if the DC were using the new guidance, shouldn't they have realised that reckless play under 9.11 could never have warranted mitigation under this framework because it's always illegal?

The confusion deepens!!
 
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Locke


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I am actually thinking that this referral process may be quite a good one. Get them off the pitch for the yellow card. Let the TMO work through all the frameworks with plenty of time to decide. Upgrade it to red if necessary
I’ve watched it happen in super rugby and, while I do appreciate that it speeds up the review on field, I don’t appreciate that the decision is then made completely out of sight of the players and fans.
Sequence of events:
1. Foul play
2. Yellow card with additional review signaled, with no replays or reviews on the field or on your TV screen.
3. In the next ten minutes, the referee gets the word in his ear, walks over to the captain and says, “the yellow card on #7 has been upgraded to a red. He’s out for the game and you’re down to 14 for the next 20 minutes.”
4. The captain and the fans would presumably appreciate an explanation. “Why? On what grounds? What warrants it being upgraded to a red?”
5. The referee has no answer. The team and the fans get no explanation. Many people (in my estimation) are unsatisfied.

In my opinion, watching/hearing the referee work through the HCP out loud with the To4 benefits everyone. Of course, unnecessary reviews and over watching the replays in slow motion can take too much time but my preference, which I think progress has already been made toward, would be to find the balance of a suitably timed on-field review. Doing it behind closed doors leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think referees are experienced enough now with the HCP that the review process is noticeably faster than say 2 years ago and I’d rather keep it then move to decisions being made out of sight to both teams and fans.
 

didds

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I’ve watched it happen in super rugby and, while I do appreciate that it speeds up the review on field, I don’t appreciate that the decision is then made completely out of sight of the players and fans.
....

In my opinion, watching/hearing the referee work through the HCP out loud with the To4 benefits everyone. Of course, unnecessary reviews and over watching the replays in slow motion can take too much time but my preference, which I think progress has already been made toward, would be to find the balance of a suitably timed on-field review. Doing it behind closed doors leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think referees are experienced enough now with the HCP that the review process is noticeably faster than say 2 years ago and I’d rather keep it then move to decisions being made out of sight to both teams and fans.
get all of that.

So why not at the next downtime demonstrate and talk through the decision "on field" ?
 

shebeen

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A replay of the tackle is shown, starting at 2:04 in the YouTube video.

Looks like a clear red to me.
thank you.

"in the current climate" totally a red card.
 
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