no penalty try in Italy-Wales match

Phil E


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The referee saying no ruck had formed was unhelpful and irrelevant.

Blue asked if the player was offside. You don't need a ruck to create offside lines.

Question is did anyone stand over the tackle to create an offside line?
An did the red player enter the tackle zone from his own side?

To be honest the video I watched is too far away to tell.
 

chbg


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The referee saying no ruck had formed was unhelpful and irrelevant.

Blue asked if the player was offside. You don't need a ruck to create offside lines.

Question is did anyone stand over the tackle to create an offside line?
An did the red player enter the tackle zone from his own side?

To be honest the video I watched is too far away to tell.
Blue 13 was on his feet when he picked up the ball from the tackle, having arrived from the direction of his own goal-line.
Red 10 did not tackle from the direction of hi own goal-line.

Surely we don't rely on players asking the right question?

It will surely be taken as a learning experience to be addressed correctly in future.
 

Phil E


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Surely we don't rely on players asking the right question?

No we don't. My point was the answer to the players questions was not really relevant to the question, so didn't help the player.

It Blue 13 was over the ball before he picked it up, then he set offside lines and red were offside.

If he didn't set offside lines then had he cleared the tackle zone before he was tackled?

It didn't look right, and if it looks like a pig and sounds like a pig.....
 

didds

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well, I dont think he picked it up. I think he took it from 5's hands/it was a very minor pop (cant tell form the video etc)
 

pedr

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Does it make any difference that - from what I can see in the video, Blue 5 is tackled with both him and the tackler lying on the floor, then he pushes himself up to present the ball (or pass it, but perhaps more likely holding it) to 13? I’m not sure it’s appropriate to say Blue 13 is “over the ball” - he’s taking the ball from Blue 5.

There is also a third Italy player though he doesn’t appear to keep his feet well.

More generally presumably we don’t usually want offside lines when the transfer from tackled player to first arriving player is quick and the arriving player advances the ball. On the other hand, Red 10 was very close to Blue 13 at the moment the ball was transferred - within 1m of the tackle.
 

Stu10


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The referee saying no ruck had formed was unhelpful and irrelevant.

Blue asked if the player was offside. You don't need a ruck to create offside lines.

Question is did anyone stand over the tackle to create an offside line?
An did the red player enter the tackle zone from his own side?

To be honest the video I watched is too far away to tell.

I found this the most frustrating part of this incident... the referee started discussing with the officiating team with focus on whether there was a ruck and therefore an offside line, Karl Dickson then came over and stated that he thought a blue player was on his feet over the tackle therefore creating the offside line, and therefore red was offside (law 14.10).

The referee then asked the TMO to show a replay to check this.

The TMO then showed multiple replays of play on the half way line, then finally came back to play at the goal line and declared there was no ruck; the referee seemed to forget his previous question about an offside line at the tackle and subsequently announced there was no ruck and therefore no offside! I don't know why Karl Dickson did not interject again.

In my opinion both laws 14.9.c and 14.10 should have been applied, and it should have been a penalty try to Italy.


Are we also going to discuss Liam Williams taking out Alessandro Fusco in the air, and Williams clearly not touching the ball?
 

Stu10


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start a thread Stu, preferably with a video link :)
Check the video from the 6 minute mark.
 

Phil E


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Check the video from the 6 minute mark.

Start a new thread please, don't hijack this one.
 

danpat

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for Nigel it was off side... I am still quite confused
 

crossref


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Why are you confused?
Nigel used the wrong phrase didn't he.
The offence Nigel described was coming into the tackle area from the wrong direction.. which isn't actually "offside" (although thats a distinction without a difference)
 

menace


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you have to remember Nige is explaining it to the everyday punter where 99.99% would never have read the law book - IMO he's keeping the language simple in terms that the average punter will understand and not use more law book terms. "offside" (ie on the wrong side) is a simple term everyone understands to say what the player did was not legal.

He goes on to say the player 'arriving must arrive from their own side if the ball is in the tackle area". He's just said they are "offside in the tackle area" ie what we know as 'not coming through the gate"

(BTW, technically as we all know a "tackle" in itself doesn't have offside lines - only when support player on feet is over the ball occurs does the offside line appear at a tackle. So Sir Nige was too loose with his words when saying that if we want to get pedantic. But you all knew that already. ;))
 

crossref


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Could be, but seeing as there were two ways 10:might have been offside, all discussed widely (if a ruck had formed, if a TWOL was still in progress) but he wasn't .. I reckon not helpful to the average punter to then use that word !

Hence the result

for Nigel it was off side... I am still quite confused
 
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Dickie E


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Could be, but seeing as there were two ways 10:might have been offside, all discussed widely (if a ruck had formed, if a TWOL was still in progress) but he wasn't .. I reckon not helpful to the average punter to then use that word !

Hence the result
I would like to hear danpat articulate why he/she is confused. From there, maybe we can help
 

belladonna

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you have to remember Nige is explaining it to the everyday punter where 99.99% would never have read the law book - IMO he's keeping the language simple in terms that the average punter will understand and not use more law book terms. "offside" (ie on the wrong side) is a simple term everyone understands to say what the player did was not legal.

He goes on to say the player 'arriving must arrive from their own side if the ball is in the tackle area". He's just said they are "offside in the tackle area" ie what we know as 'not coming through the gate"

(BTW, technically as we all know a "tackle" in itself doesn't have offside lines - only when support player on feet is over the ball occurs does the offside line appear at a tackle. So Sir Nige was too loose with his words when saying that if we want to get pedantic. But you all knew that already. ;))
This!! Very much this 👆👆👆
 
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