Not 10

[Toby Warren]

At a 7s game

Kick off is a grubber kick. It is rolling towards the 10m line and still in motion. Kicker's team mate gets there first and with one foot on the 10m line picks up the moving ball which hasn't reached the 10m yet.

Clearly the actual answer is 'manage it' but in law has this gone 10?

 

[ChrisR]

You could make a case for "Yes" based on relevant touch, 22 and goal law pertaining to playing a moving ball. But I wouldn't as there is really no need to. My answer would be "No".

Did this question appear in a dream?

 

[winchesterref]

I say no, ball hasn't crossed the line. Interesting.

 

[Toby Warren]

No it (almost) happened on Sunday. Kicker's team mate picked up whilst it was touching the 10m line so was play on but made me think what if....

 

[winchesterref]

Law says the ball has to reach the 10m line, which I think covers the answer. Can't remember the exact wording

 

[leaguerefaus]

Indeed. It's all about the ball. Once it crosses the 10m plane, it's all good!

 

[crossref]

great question ...

there is loads of precedent to say that when you catch a moving ball with your feet either side of a line, you are rewarded by the ball being judged to be on the side that suits you.

so play on.

 

[leaguerefaus]

great question ...

there is loads of precedent to say that when you catch a moving ball with your feet either side of a line, you are rewarded by the ball being judged to be on the side that suits you.

so play on.

If you have a foot either side of the line, but the ball hasn't traveled 10m forward, it's not play on. Read the rule - it continually refers to THE BALL.

This is why it is play on if the ball crosses the 10m plane but then blows backwards.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Law 13 states that the ball has to reach the 10m line (not cross it) - that is what I have always used.

Interesting suggestions re the use of planted feet as per 22m, touch / touch in-goal / dead-ball lines with a moving ball - but for a kick-off or re-start I am not persuaded it should apply. Keep it simple - has the ball reached the 10m line - Yes or No ?

 

[Jacko]

Law 13 states that the ball has to reach the 10m line (not cross it) - that is what I have always used.

Interesting suggestions re the use of planted feet as per 22m, touch / touch in-goal / dead-ball lines with a moving ball - but for a kick-off or re-start I am not persuaded it should apply. Keep it simple - has the ball reached the 10m line - Yes or No ?

If the kick off was long and a player had a foot either side of goal line to pick up moving ball and immediately ground in-goal would you think any differently Simon??

 

[crossref]

shrug --

if it's a long kick off
- a defender catches it with a foot either side of 22m , we say it's in the 22m and he can kick for gain in ground
- if he he is astride the goal line we say it's in goal and he can touch it down for options (or a FK in sevens)
- if he is astride the touch line we say the ball is out on the full.

in each case we deem that ball has crossed a line, even though, actually, it didn't

be consistent.

 

[FlipFlop]

There are a few other situations where it is the ball that must travel a certain distance.

Lineout - ball must cross the 5m line is one. A player can't reach in an catch it before it crosses the 5m line.

I'd go with not 10 in the original questions.

And as for a player straddling the line - why can people rule which side of the line he is? With touch it is easy - the player is touching something (the ground) beyound the line of touch. With the 22m - it has been ruled, etc. There is no rule to say a player with one foot either side of the 10m line is inside the 10m "channel", or outside it.

I could easily state a player with a foot either side of the 10m line, is deemed to be in the 10m "channel", so we go back if the player with a foot either side catches it after the ball has crossed the 10m line.....

So the law says ball. So why play anything else?

 

[Simon Thomas]

If the kick off was long and a player had a foot either side of goal line to pick up moving ball and immediately ground in-goal would you think any differently Simon??

yes Jacko - either what a strong wind it is today or poor guy did not know about the Patesians Hill !

I do not like the modern 'professional got-you' of a foot over line tactics, but prefer the simpler just "has the ball touched or crossed the line ?" in any case.

My personal view is irrelevant as the IRB made their clarifications and guidance decisions regarding the touchline, 22m and dead-ball line, and so those are the Laws and interpretations we apply (and 'Observe').

Once the IRB make a ruling on 10m kick-off / restarts too I would be happy to concede the point - until then we might have a robust debate as Referee / MO, but it would not change your usual CC to a C !

 

[crossref]

actualyl, despite my previous post -- when I visualise it happening - I am pretty sure all thirty players would be expect me to give not-10 and actually that's exactly what I would give in practice.

 

[Taff]

actualyl, despite my previous post -- when I visualise it happening - I am pretty sure all thirty players would be expect me to give not-10 and actually that's exactly what I would give in practice.

Exactly. You could make a good argument for it to be "deemed" over the 10m line, but sometimes it's just easier to keep it simple and give what every single player, spectator and coach was expecting.

 

[Dixie]

The question is moot. In 7's, pretty much every referee would already have given the free kick for the grubber, on the grounds that it bounced before the 10m line!

 

[Ian_Cook]

The question is moot. In 7's, pretty much every referee would already have given the free kick for the grubber, on the grounds that it bounced before the 10m line!

Really? Is that something new?
[LAWS]

Law 13.7 KICK-OFF OF UNDER 10 METRES AND NOT PLAYED BY AN
OPPONENT
Sevens Variation: Amend
If the ball does not reach the opponents’ 10-metre line, a free kick is awarded to the nonoffending
team at the centre of the half way line.
Sanction: Free Kick at the centre of the half way line.[/LAWS]

Not seeing anythng in there about the ball bouncing before the 10m

Surely, if the grubber reaches the 10m or an opponent plays it first, play on!

 

[Dickie E]

Really? Is that something new?
Not seeing anythng in there about the ball bouncing before the 10m

Surely, if the grubber reaches the 10m or an opponent plays it first, play on!

I think it was a joke possibly driven by a personal experience

 

[Simon Thomas]

The question is moot. In 7's, pretty much every referee would already have given the free kick for the grubber, on the grounds that it bounced before the 10m line!

On a fishing trip?

 

[Dickie E]

Marius' view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiQ6TToCSWQ