[Line out] Not straight or not material?

ChrisR

Player or Coach
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
3,231
Post Likes
356
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
We've discussed this recently but have not found it.

https://youtu.be/xlm5MZSHjmo?t=1961

The Black thrower is not standing on the LOT, the ball goes directly down the Black LO players, WB is looking directly down the LOT.

So did he just rule 'not material' as Gold didn't compete?

The joke is he just admonished a Gold player for standing in the tunnel.
 

Ciaran Trainor


Referees in England
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
2,871
Post Likes
383
Location
Walney Island
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
He just ruled this is TV rugby and the laws only apply when we the top refs feel they should
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,164
Post Likes
1,846
Ain't that the truth Ciaran!

Didds
 

Paule23


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
394
Post Likes
153
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
But does it matter if the opposition don't compete? I know it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario (maybe they don't compete as they know the contest will not be fair) but if say on the first line out it's not quite straight, but the oppo stay down, is it material? I would argue not, although I do appreciate the thoughts if you don't penalise it will just continue.
 

Ian_Cook


Referees in New Zealand
Staff member
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
13,687
Post Likes
1,773
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
1. Black 2 has taken a sneaky step to his right..... and the AR followed him instead of bringing him back to his mark!

2. Black 2 then throws from the wrong place; an incorrect throw-in - Law 19.7 (a)

3. Black has six players in the line-out, Gold has seven - Law 19.8 (c) unless Gold 10 is the player opposing the hooker (Gold 2 is in the middle of the line-out). The Gold line-out isn't a half metre back, its a full two metres back. Gold 10 is the only Gold player in the correct position (other than the SH). Is this some kind of new tactic?
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,164
Post Likes
1,846
Just looked at the linout linked to.

what a joke.

do refs and ARs and TMOs at this level havce any credibility when trash like this is not only perpetrated but permitted?

As for Goild's actions... I've not seen the game, but from what Ive read that just seems to fall in line with Cheika's attempts at player empowerment/lassez faire defense approach?

!!

didds

didds
 

Ian_Cook


Referees in New Zealand
Staff member
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
13,687
Post Likes
1,773
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Just looked at the linout linked to.

what a joke.

do refs and ARs and TMOs at this level havce any credibility when trash like this is not only perpetrated but permitted?

As for Goild's actions... I've not seen the game, but from what Ive read that just seems to fall in line with Cheika's attempts at player empowerment/lassez faire defense approach?

!!

didds

didds


I agree. That's very slack on the WB's part and the AR on that side.

As for Gold's tactics, I can't see any possible advantage to be gained from having your line-out players an extra 1½ back from the LoT unless you were preparing to not commit to a line-out drive maul (i.e. an "Italian Job"). TA line-out drive would be unlikely in that position (near half way).
 

andyscott


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
3,117
Post Likes
55
But does it matter if the opposition don't compete? I know it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario (maybe they don't compete as they know the contest will not be fair) but if say on the first line out it's not quite straight, but the oppo stay down, is it material? I would argue not, although I do appreciate the thoughts if you don't penalise it will just continue.

Define compete?

A lineout has more competative factors than a jump. A not straight also effects the setup, do the defence 'compete' at this point and has the squint throw effected it???, it effects the tap off the top, giving quicker attacking ball, so the defence's ability to compete is reduced.

Yes it does.
 

ChrisR

Player or Coach
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
3,231
Post Likes
356
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Shell shock. They looked like a flock of sheep in desperate need of a Border Collie.
 

ChrisR

Player or Coach
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
3,231
Post Likes
356
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Thanx, Taff.

Watched two Pro14 matches yesterday. As often as not the thrower set up directly in line with his side and the ball went straight down hie LO players. No call. I'm scratching my head. AR needs his flag to be a cattle prod and move the thrower back to the LoT.
 

Pinky


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,521
Post Likes
192
Just watched the Aviva Premiership highlights. There were lots of throw-ins that did not meet my standard for being straight. A few with the hooker off-centre, but most just thrown squint over their own team.
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,136
Post Likes
2,409
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
Just watched the Aviva Premiership highlights. There were lots of throw-ins that did not meet my standard for being straight. A few with the hooker off-centre, but most just thrown squint over their own team.

Premiership linouts are heading the way of scrum put ins........which are still not straight even though the SH is now standing his side of the middle.

It's tragic.
 

Taff


Referees in Wales
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
6,942
Post Likes
383
Just watched the Aviva Premiership highlights. There were lots of throw-ins that did not meet my standard for being straight. A few with the hooker off-centre, but most just thrown squint over their own team.

Why are the opposition complaining?

That's all they have to do is stick a player up in the air (any attempt will do - even a half-hearted one) et voiloa .... the squint throw automatically becomes material and the LO / Scrum option is theirs.
 
Top