NRC Law Amendments.

[Chogan]

Anyone in Australia know what the options are that have been given to the public to vote on.

http://nrc2014phase3.meltwaterrise.com/

Unfortunately it can't be seen by those outside Aus due to regional constraints.

 

[Drift]

Select from as many options below -: *
1. Instead of 4 try bonus point, winning team is awarded a bonus point for finishing 3 or more tries ahead of their opponents
2. Reduced time limits for conversions and penalty kick attempts
3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty
4. Time limit for both teams to form a scrum
5. No option to kick for goal from a scrum penalty (kick to touch allowed). If penalty becomes a ‘repeated infringement’ then kick at goal is allowed.
6. Scrum-half of non-feeding team is compulsory, must stay within 1m of the scrum, and cannot move past the mid-line of the scrum
7. If a yellow card is given for repeated team infringement (excluding dangerous play), the non-offending captain chooses the opposition player who is temporarily suspended for 10 mins
8. Players arriving through the gate may ‘drive out’ opponents past the ruck, creating more space behind the ruck for attack
9. If non-throwing team does not contest for the ball, the straightness of the throw is not considered
10. A ‘mark’ can be awarded any place on the field
11. After half-time and full-time, if awarded a Penalty Kick, you can kick to touch and play the lineout
12. Free Kick for kick-off infringements as per Sevens

 

[Ian_Cook]

Select from as many options below -: *
1. Instead of 4 try bonus point, winning team is awarded a bonus point for finishing 3 or more tries ahead of their opponents
2. Reduced time limits for conversions and penalty kick attempts
3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty
4. Time limit for both teams to form a scrum
5. No option to kick for goal from a scrum penalty (kick to touch allowed). If penalty becomes a ‘repeated infringement’ then kick at goal is allowed.
6. Scrum-half of non-feeding team is compulsory, must stay within 1m of the scrum, and cannot move past the mid-line of the scrum
7. If a yellow card is given for repeated team infringement (excluding dangerous play), the non-offending captain chooses the opposition player who is temporarily suspended for 10 mins
8. Players arriving through the gate may ‘drive out’ opponents past the ruck, creating more space behind the ruck for attack
9. If non-throwing team does not contest for the ball, the straightness of the throw is not considered
10. A ‘mark’ can be awarded any place on the field
11. After half-time and full-time, if awarded a Penalty Kick, you can kick to touch and play the lineout
12. Free Kick for kick-off infringements as per Sevens

3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty
I like the basic idea here, but I would have reduced the points value of a successful PK to 2 points, awarded the scrum only after a successful kick, and given the throw in to the kicking team. Reduces the impact of a PK while preventing a "cheat's charter"

5. No option to kick for goal from a scrum penalty (kick to touch allowed). If penalty becomes a ‘repeated infringement’ then kick at goal is allowed.
Worth a try, provided that 3 above was implemented when that happens. (I suspect that this is a delayed reaction to a certain RWC match from 2011 :biggrin

6. Scrum-half of non-feeding team is compulsory, must stay within 1m of the scrum, and cannot move past the mid-line of the scrum
100% agree with this. The scrum itself is the contest for the ball. Once it is won, why should the SH now have to contest again for his team's already won ball. However, "mid-line" would have to be clearly defined in the case of a scrum screwing. Perhaps "behind the shoulder of his team's hindmost prop" might be a better defining line.

7. If a yellow card is given for repeated team infringement (excluding dangerous play), the non-offending captain chooses the opposition player who is temporarily suspended for 10 mins
No, I don't agree with this at all.

8. Players arriving through the gate may ‘drive out’ opponents past the ruck, creating more space behind the ruck for attack
Agreed, provided that they do not drive out players who are not in the ruck, i.e. driving through the ruck and taking out a defender who is not in physical contact with the ruck or other players in it, should still be illegal.

9. If non-throwing team does not contest for the ball, the straightness of the throw is not considered
Yes, 100% agree with this. Encourage teams to contest every line-out.

10. A ‘mark’ can be awarded any place on the field
Disagree as this goes too far. Own half or inside own 10m line would have been sufficient.

11. After half-time and full-time, if awarded a Penalty Kick, you can kick to touch and play the lineout
I agree, but the team should also be allowed to kick at goal and if successful, get a scrum feed at the place of the kick. This will discourage teams from giving a way a PK when leading by a small margin.

12. Free Kick for kick-off infringements as per Sevens
Yes, provided a scrum option was also available, or a QTi in the case of a kick-off/restart going straight or short into touch.


The rest (1, 2 and 4), well..... Meh!

 

[damo]

I like 3, 8, 11 and 12.

 

[TigerCraig]

I like 5, 6, 9, 10 (although own half would be better) and 11

Don't like 3, as it just encourages more shots at goal, plus a great way to waste a minute or so late in the game

A couple of these were on the list I submitted. Shame they didn't take my "ban place kicks" one

 

[Chogan]

Not a fan of 1 and 2.
3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty. Interesting but I'd want a try to be 6 as an added incentive for not going for goal.

4. Time limit for both teams to form a scrum. No argument here. A genuine pain in the arse that eats clock, allows posturing and gamesmanship

5. No option to kick for goal from a scrum penalty (kick to touch allowed). If penalty becomes a ‘repeated infringement’ then kick at goal is allowed. Not sure. I'd be quite happy if we just stayed strict on 'square and steady' and straight feed. If the teams don't cheat there are way less scrum peno's.

6. Scrum-half of non-feeding team is compulsory, must stay within 1m of the scrum, and cannot move past the mid-line of the scrum. No thanks. Contest for possession doesn't stop just because you won the strike. Poor control from 8 and the opposition could be away under the posts. Strict application of behind the ball is fine for me.

7. If a yellow card is given for repeated team infringement (excluding dangerous play), the non-offending captain chooses the opposition player who is temporarily suspended for 10 mins. I like the idea and would be great TV but it is unsporting and could be very messy.

8. Players arriving through the gate may ‘drive out’ opponents past the ruck, creating more space behind the ruck for attack. No thank you.

9. If non-throwing team does not contest for the ball, the straightness of the throw is not considered. Yes, yes and yes

10. A ‘mark’ can be awarded any place on the field. No. While to much kicking is disagreeable, less players in the backfield to catch the kicks means a more congested defensive line. Players need to open their eyes and play heads up.

11. After half-time and full-time, if awarded a Penalty Kick, you can kick to touch and play the lineout. No issue with this one.

12. Free Kick for kick-off infringements as per Sevens. 100%.

 

[RuggerFan]

Select from as many options below -: * 1. Instead of 4 try bonus point, winning team is awarded a bonus point for finishing 3 or more tries ahead of their opponents

This would be the same system as the one they use in the Top14

2. Reduced time limits for conversions and penalty kick attempts

Works for me. Too much time is wasted.

3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty

Yeah, because MORE scrums is exactly what rugby needs. NO THANKS!

4. Time limit for both teams to form a scrum

Works for me.

5. No option to kick for goal from a scrum penalty (kick to touch allowed). If penalty becomes a ‘repeated infringement’ then kick at goal is allowed.

Works for me.

6. Scrum-half of non-feeding team is compulsory, must stay within 1m of the scrum, and cannot move past the mid-line of the scrum

What's the point of this law change?

7. If a yellow card is given for repeated team infringement (excluding dangerous play), the non-offending captain chooses the opposition player who is temporarily suspended for 10 mins

Works for me.

8. Players arriving through the gate may ‘drive out’ opponents past the ruck, creating more space behind the ruck for attack

It would get too messy IMO and it would make things harder to ref.

9. If non-throwing team does not contest for the ball, the straightness of the throw is not considered

Works for me.

10. A ‘mark’ can be awarded any place on the field

No way. This would practically eliminate box kicks.

11. After half-time and full-time, if awarded a Penalty Kick, you can kick to touch and play the lineout

Soon enough we'll have infinite games

12. Free Kick for kick-off infringements as per Sevens

Works for me. What I would like to see is to not allow penalties outside the 22 to be kicked for a goal.

 

[Camquin]

Originally Posted by Drift
Select from as many options below -: *
1. Instead of 4 try bonus point, winning team is awarded a bonus point for finishing 3 or more tries ahead of their opponents

No bonus point for the losing side, not wrong per se but different

2. Reduced time limits for conversions and penalty kick attempts

Fine

3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty

Not sure about this. It is very different. I would want to see this trialled.

4. Time limit for both teams to form a scrum

Yes, but make sure you give the free kick to the correct side and it cannot be taken as a scrum.
You have to allow time off for injuries.
We already have 10.2(b) time wasting, apply it.

5. No option to kick for goal from a scrum penalty (kick to touch allowed). If penalty becomes a ‘repeated infringement’ then kick at goal is allowed.

I.e. All scrum offences are free kicks.
Including dangerous play - pulling down etc - and offside.
Why should these not incur a full penalty when equivalent play at any other phase would.

The important thing is that referees must get this right. And seems to be admitting they currently don't.

This means penalising the bind on the arm not the player pulled down by their opponent. Correct binds and a straight feed tend to lead to proper scrums without penalty.

Also referees must only give penalties for offences actually in the law. No penalties for "not taking the hit" or whatever this seasons imagined offence is.

6. Scrum-half of non-feeding team is compulsory, must stay within 1m of the scrum, and cannot move past the mid-line of the scrum

Sounds like U17 rules. Are you also going to reduce the shove to 1.5m as well?

7. If a yellow card is given for repeated team infringement (excluding dangerous play), the non-offending captain chooses the opposition player who is temporarily suspended for 10 mins

Not sure about this. It seems to mean a player who has not offended at all could be binned which feels wrong.
Maybe give the captain the choice from the players who have offended.

8. Players arriving through the gate may ‘drive out’ opponents past the ruck, creating more space behind the ruck for attack

Why.
keep everyone on their feet and on side and go from there.
Sealing off by both sides, needs to be policed

9. If non-throwing team does not contest for the ball, the straightness of the throw is not considered

What exactly is meant by contest?
The non throwing side are allowed to choose how they want to defend, this takes an option away from them.
Why?

10. A ‘mark’ can be awarded any place on the field

Why?
You have just been given the ball, do something with it.

11. After half-time and full-time, if awarded a Penalty Kick, you can kick to touch and play the lineout

Why?
Time has to be up sometime.


12. Free Kick for kick-off infringements as per Sevens

But there will only be restarts after tries if 3 is adopted.
So it is probably moot.

If scrums are managed correctly why not have a scrum.
Or is this another admission elite refs cannot manage scrums?

 

[The umpire]

1. don't care
2. Strongly agree - provided it's enforced on TV rugby - perhaps a stadium countdown clock - with the crowd adding their voice, actually I like this one more and more:biggrin:
3. Strongly disagree, if successful kick, then its a double penalty
4. Agree, but as per 2.
5. Agree
6. I think that's the U-13's rule over here. Disagree.
7. Disagree. More timewasting while they thnik about it, current sod's law is fine.
8. Strongly disagree, where will they stop? May as well call it American football and run interference.
9. Disagree, he'll end up throwing it straight to the scrum half.
10. Oh good, another reason to stop play. Strongly Disagree.
11. Disagree.
12. Probably wouldn't mind, if I could remember the difference!

 

[menace]

For those interested in the law variations being trialled in Oz NRC

http://www.rugby.com.au/nrc/LawVariation.aspx

What I found the most bizarre variation to get public support was the play on for 'not straight' lineout throw when non throw team doesn't contest?
Probably the most frequent call I hear from the sideline muppet gallery is "AAWWW NOT STRAIGHT!", even on the straightest of throws. You can bet 90% a of NRC spectators will not know about these vars and there will be howls about this!

 

[irishref]

1. Instead of 4 try bonus point, winning team is awarded a bonus point for finishing 3 or more tries ahead of their opponents

Yup, works well in France, why not. Gives a team incentive to keep scoring tries and at the business end of a season bonus points often come into play in league positions.

2. Reduced time limits for conversions and penalty kick attempts

haven't we recently set clear limits, is that not working well?


3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty

If we agree that scrums are a mess in the elite game, why bring in more scrums? I'd be happy with the defending team having a free kick, which would be a more suitable transfer of possession for a failed kick.


4. Time limit for both teams to form a scrum

How much? In principle not against it


5. No option to kick for goal from a scrum penalty (kick to touch allowed). If penalty becomes a ‘repeated infringement’ then kick at goal is allowed.

Too complicated and don't see the reasoning, a no from me.


6. Scrum-half of non-feeding team is compulsory, must stay within 1m of the scrum, and cannot move past the mid-line of the scrum

Again, more needless complications. I'm happy with the status quo of the ball being the opposing scrum half's offside line


7. If a yellow card is given for repeated team infringement (excluding dangerous play), the non-offending captain chooses the opposition player who is temporarily suspended for 10 mins

No, no and no. Keep as is.


8. Players arriving through the gate may ‘drive out’ opponents past the ruck, creating more space behind the ruck for attack

I have to say I'd like to get a check on what is intended with this sentence. Does it mean opponents not physically in the ruck, but in a pillar position for example, are now fair game?



9. If non-throwing team does not contest for the ball, the straightness of the throw is not considered

Don't like it, keep as is. The choice not to contest the ball in the air is only taken when the opposition choose to contest the immediate drive. Either way, a lineout should remain a fair contest for the ball.


10. A ‘mark’ can be awarded any place on the field

No, keep as is. Last gap defensive option, let's keep open play as open as possible please, fewer set pieces!


11. After half-time and full-time, if awarded a Penalty Kick, you can kick to touch and play the lineout

To squeeze in a few extra viewing moments? Without wishing to sound like a NIMBY, no I don't see the point in this


12. Free Kick for kick-off infringements as per Sevens

Yup sounds good to me

 

[OB..]

3. After a successful or unsuccessful penalty goal attempt, play is restarted with a scrum to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty

If we agree that scrums are a mess in the elite game, why bring in more scrums? I'd be happy with the defending team having a free kick, which would be a more suitable transfer of possession for a failed kick.

The problem to be solved is that teams are prepared to risk giving away three points from a PK if it will save 5 or 7 from a try. After a PK they get the kick and thus relieve the attacking pressure.

This change puts them back under pressure immediately. The experiment should test if it actually reduces the number of goal-line PKs.

 

[FlipFlop]

My issue with the PK variation as worded is:
It implies that any unsuccessful PK is a scrum back - even if it lands in the field of play. When "play on" has to be a better choice.
Also Put In is to team who didn't kick. Think it should be the kicking team (give up potential points AND not gain possession) - especially if you are reducing the points for a PK, and increasing a converted try.

 

[OB..]

My issue with the PK variation as worded is:
It implies that any unsuccessful PK is a scrum back - even if it lands in the field of play. When "play on" has to be a better choice.

Agreed.

Also Put In is to team who didn't kick. Think it should be the kicking team (give up potential points AND not gain possession) - especially if you are reducing the points for a PK, and increasing a converted try.

I missed that - my original proposal was indeed that the feed should go to the non-offending team.