Numbers in the scrum.......

[Stoo48]

U19 Game at the weekend, Blue have a prop Red carded and bring an in experienced player into the front row, we go uncontested. Blue put in they put 7 into the scrum, red are told to match.

Red put in, this is where I was unsure..... Red chose to put 8 in, I told Blue to match it. Am I right or wrong? Should I have dropped the scrum to 7 men regardless?

For the record, by management, it didn't cause a problem, but I'm still not sure as to which is technically right

 

[Davet]

Blue have a prop Red carded and bring an in experienced player into the front row, we go uncontested

Why do you go uncontested if the player coming on is STE front row?

If they lose the no8 say to make way for him then you pack down 7 each.

Since they now have only 7 forwards then both sides scrum down 7 each from now on, conytested scrums.

That's my view - but we have sailed round this course recently, and it gets very difficult to be sure. But personally I'd take the simple view.

 

[Stoo48]

Apologies, typo, no STE front row now available...

 

[tim White]

"in experienced" does this mean NOT STE? If uncontested they should really go 8 each as they both have 15 on the pitch but without full STE front rows.

It must have been crowded in the back line :biggrin:

 

[chbg]

Still 15 a-side, so all scrums remain at 8. 20.1(e)

WRONG :norc: RTBQ

 

[dave_clark]

after a red card, i'd guess one team had 14 players only...

 

[crossref]

stoo48 -- this scenario, and other similar ones are not properly covered in the Laws. So no one knows the answer. Opinions differ. The Laws only say that the numbers are even. they don't say who chooses how many.

 

[Phil E]

Lose a forward, both teams pack down with 7 (no #8).

Lose a back, carry on as before.

Lose a 2nd forward, both teams pack down with 6 (no flankers).

It's not up to the teams, it's up to the ref. If you leave it up to the teams you will never get a decision that is agreed by both teams. Just make your decision and get on with the game.

I have never had a problem or had my decision questioned.

 

[TigerCraig]

The instruction that we have been given is that the team that are short (whether from starting short, having a player sent off or through calling uncontested and losing a player) set the numbers.

I don't know if there was any particular reason for going that way, but the league rules have been written that way to "ensure consistency" :chin:

 

[ddjamo]

indiana better be ready...there's a new sheriff in town...

 

[Stoo48]

Gee thanks Jamo, guess I need a tour to Michigan....

As for other comments above, I think that the law is almost clear, lose a forward, pack down with 7 in scrum, both packs regardless of put in. However, I don't think this is very equitable on the side that has not had a player carded.

 

[barker14610]

It isn't. But, the U-19 packs can't push past 1.5 meters anyway, so there really is no harm.
Jamo, the collegiate girls love our new ref with the funny accent. They even invited him skinny dipping in the pond after a muddy game. I am still waiting for video evidence. His reputation is spreading far and wide and I am sure your co-eds will be asking for him come fall.

 

[Just got off phone with..]

As the new sheriff said, "I pass out YC like candy." Indiana is in for a shock, but they better get used to it. This guy knows his stuff! And he is a real asset at AR in a big match!!!

 

[Rit Hinners]

It isn't. But, the U-19 packs can't push past 1.5 meters anyway, so there really is no harm.
Jamo, the collegiate girls love our new ref with the funny accent. They even invited him skinny dipping in the pond after a muddy game. I am still waiting for video evidence. His reputation is spreading far and wide and I am sure your co-eds will be asking for him come fall.

LOL... some of the best memories I have are from the years that I coached and reffed women.