Offside at scrum for scrum half of side not putting in

[Jonathan355]

I should know this but am struggling. When the ball is put in to a scrum, the onside position for the scrum half who is not putting the ball in is clear. When the ball is still in the scrum though, if that defending scrum half moves to the back of the scrum he is presumably still onside as long as he is behind the back foot. If he moves to the opposite side of the scrum from the put in though (still in line with the back foot) how far away from the scrum is he allowed to go before he would need to drop back 5 metres?

 

[Volun-selected]

If they stay in line with the ball they have to stay close to the scrum. (No official definition of ‘close’ so use your judgement and be consistent, I guess…)

If they decide to retire to the offside line then I read it as they have freedom to move as near or as far from the scrum as they desire - they just need to stay in line with the hindmost foot/offside line (and I think there was a thread about that recently).

If they drop back 5m to join the main offside line then they have freedom to move anywhere as long as they stay behind the 5m offside line behind the scrum.

 

[Jonathan355]

Great. Thank you.

 

[chbg]

Law 19.30:

 

[Jonathan355]

Thanks. I had looked at the law book. It wasn’t clear on whether it matters how far from the scrum the red scrum half goes laterally if he goes to the offside line at the back foot of his players.

 

[Jonathan355]

Reply appreciated though.

 

[Decorily]

Ah but the dotted line representing the OS line only goes part of the way across the pitch in the image so based on the way some people interpret the LOTG the 9 can only traverse the pitch part of the way!!

 

[Jonathan355]

That’s in part why I wondered!

 

[crossref]

Barnesy explains it well

 

[Jonathan355]

That’s really helpful. Explained really clearly. Thank you v much.

 

[Stu10]

A new question under the same title... (using the colours in the graphic I've borrowed from the Law Book) in my match yesterday, on red feed to the scrum, gold scrumhalf moved to a position as shown below when the ball was at the 8's feet... the feet of gold 9 were behind the ball, and he stayed to the outside of the red flanker, therefore I was happy.

The attacking 9 was struggling with the pressure and kept complaining that the defending 9 was not allowed beyond the flanker, but I dismissed him and stated that the offside line was set by the ball and he had not moved into the pocket between 7 and 8. (In my mind, I also chalked it down to u16 backrow players not learning to protect the scrumhalf).

Was I correct?

 

[Phil E]

Yes you were.
Law states both feet behind the ball and not to go into the pocket.
Red 9 needs to STFU and get on with his own game.

 

[Decorily]

Presumably the Red 9 put the ball in to the scrum on his loose head side. ....if so then all looks legal as described.

 

[tim White]

Absolutely correct.

And; Both the flanker and number 8 need to learn how to protect their scrum-half. Where to place their feet, where to place the ball. When to pick it up and pass to your scrum-half thereby taking out the oppo, 9 etc.

 

[Volun-selected]

Absolutely correct.

And; Both the flanker and number 8 need to learn how to protect their scrum-half. Where to place their feet, where to place the ball. When to pick it up and pass to your scrum-half thereby taking out the oppo, 9 etc.

Agreed, totally legal.

Another variation I see when the scrum half is struggling with the pressure is the locks move the ball away from the put-in side to between the lock and the flanker on the opposite side. (By the feet of the gold flanker with the green cap in your graphic.) Gold SH can step around the back of the gold #8 and play the ball. Red SH cannot follow until the ball is played without going offside.

 

[Stu10]

Thanks, everyone... I was fairly confident in my call, but confirmation is reassuring.

 

[didds]

well from that picture red 9 is offside as both his feet are likely in front of the ball. AIUI he cant just stand there and in effect block yellow 9s access to a #8 pick up (well, if #8 came left maybe anyway... probably not material for a right side break)

?? Innit ??

 

[didds]

Another variation I see when the scrum half is struggling with the pressure is the locks move the ball away from the put-in side to between the lock and the flanker on the opposite side. (By the feet of the gold flanker with the green cap in your graphic.) Gold SH can step around the back of the gold #8 and play the ball. Red SH cannot follow until the ball is played without going offside.

a.k.a. channel 3 ball.
where channel 2 is to the #8s feet and channel 1 is between the number 8 and the left flanker's feet

 

[Decorily]

well from that picture red 9 is offside as both his feet are likely in front of the ball. AIUI he cant just stand there and in effect block yellow 9s access to a #8 pick up (well, if #8 came left maybe anyway... probably not material for a right side break)

?? Innit ??

Where is Red 9?

 

[didds]

oops. sorry - I misread what the circled 9 represented.

Ignore my drivel above!