[Line out] Offside by QTI

Rich_NL

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In a game I played in recently (old man rugby, not the highest pace):

Blue kick deep from their own half, red 10 gathers the ball just inside his own 22 and gets bundled into touch by blue 6. As the teams are running back, blue 6 takes the QTI 2m back from the LOT to blue 12 - who immediately gets pounced on by a still-retreating red 5.

Red were offside in open play from red 10's possession. Does the QTI count as a pass, putting everyone onside? Or does the opponent have to be onside to contest a QTI?

At the time the ref blew for offside, and it seemed like the right call (although I was blue 4, so somewhat biased ;) ). Afterwards, talking to the ref about it, I wasn't so sure.
 

crossref


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I would say that when Blue took the QTI they were the last team to play the ball, so all red are onside ...
 

Balones

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At a lineout, quick or ordinary, don’t offside lines apply, I think is the crux of the question?
 

OB..


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[LAWS]10.9 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.[/FONT][/LAWS]
Does this law apply? It is not clear , but I suspect it does.
 

Balones

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[LAWS]10.9 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.[/FONT][/LAWS]
Does this law apply? It is not clear , but I suspect it does.

You are right OB... it is not clear and that is why I posed it as a question. The law you quote refers to perhaps a normal lineout setup I would think but wouldn’t swear to it. At a QTI we don’t have a lineout.
 

Phil E


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We have been down this road before and I am sure I asked for clarification on it.

The result was that if you are offside when the ball goes into touch, then that's what you are penalised for; if you subsequently interfere with play. You cannot benefit from being in an offside position.
 
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crossref


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We have been down this road before and I am sure I asked for clarification on it.

The result was that if you are offside when the ball goes into touch, then that's what you are penalised for; if you subsequently interfere with play. You cannot benefit from being in an offside position.

That was in context of being in front of your kicker, who was last to play the ball
This is a slightly different scenario
 

Balones

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Can you take a QTI if the was taken into touch by an opposition player carrying the ball? Usually it is only from kicks. I think that if it was allowed we’d soon end up with incidents of potential conflict between players.
 

OB..


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Can you take a QTI if the was taken into touch by an opposition player carrying the ball? Usually it is only from kicks. I think that if it was allowed we’d soon end up with incidents of potential conflict between players.
[LAWS]18.3 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]A player who carries the ball into touch must release the ball immediately so that a quick throw may be taken. [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Sanction:[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Penalty.[/FONT][/LAWS]
 

Balones

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[LAWS]18.3 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]A player who carries the ball into touch must release the ball immediately so that a quick throw may be taken. [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Sanction:[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Penalty.[/FONT][/LAWS]

Yes forgot that one. But I have always thought it was a rather difficult one to apply. If I was coaching a side I would suggest they release the ball away from the nearest opposition or hold on a bit until the ref blows. After all, how do you know if you’ve gone into touch if you’ve been tackled? You might have lost sense of where exactly you were. :)
 

crossref


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Yes forgot that one. But I have always thought it was a rather difficult one to apply. If I was coaching a side I would suggest they release the ball away from the nearest opposition or hold on a bit until the ref blows. After all, how do you know if you’ve gone into touch if you’ve been tackled? You might have lost sense of where exactly you were. :)

you know this offence when you see it ..
 

Dickie E


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Re the OP. As far as I'm concerned, provided Red were complying with law prior to the ball going into touch (and they were because they were retiring and not interfering with play) then the event of the ball going into touch puts everyone onside.

This is backed up by a WR video that showed an AB kick where players in front of the ball held their ground until ball went into touch at which time they moved forward to LoT.
 

Rich_NL

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It is a rare situation, in that there were 2 chasers in position before the defence returned - but the average age was over 40 for both teams :)

Possibly the reason it looks wrong is from a principle point of view - do you not want to reward blue for chasing 50m, tackling to prevent the clearance, and then maintaining continuity with the QTI in the time that red jogs back 40m? That seems like Phil's point about benefiting from being offside. I think there was a clarification recently about not benefiting from being offside when preventing the QTI, wasn't there?
 

Zebra1922


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I say they were onside. If not, at what point would they become onside? Say the QTI throws the ball 10m backwards, and the receiving player does not pass the ball. We don't expect red to remain stationary whilst blue move away from them, we would not expect them to have to run PAST blue before they can turn and tackle, ergo they must be onside all the time. It will look weird as they are beyond what would have been theLOT, and in this case closer to blue DB line than the blue receiver, but I don't see any other interpretation than open play and play on.

Having said that, as it 'looks' weird and would probably get a crowd shouting in a big match, I can live with an interpretation that does not strictly exist in law that it's offside. Just not my preferred approach here.
 

Pinky


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Re the OP. As far as I'm concerned, provided Red were complying with law prior to the ball going into touch (and they were because they were retiring and not interfering with play) then the event of the ball going into touch puts everyone onside.

This is backed up by a WR video that showed an AB kick where players in front of the ball held their ground until ball went into touch at which time they moved forward to LoT.

Dickie, I think it is the event of the ball being played back into the game by a QTI that puts folks onside. The ball going into touch has the potential to create new offside lines if a lineout is formed.
 

menace


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I agree with Dickie. Once ball is in touch you can go/be wherever you like. The laws painstakenly describe offside at the lineout and once it forms....but say zip about offside on the Quick Throw. So there is no offside at QTI.
Any offside BEFORE the ball goes into touch just needs to be managed.
 

crossref


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I found this on the World Rugby website. See no. 2. But I don't understand what they are saying should happen?

https://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=9&guideline=5

It means that when your side kick, and you are in front of your kicker , you can't race forward to defend a possible QTI

You need to stand still until the ball goes into touch (or otherwise put onside) and only then you can move forward
 
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