[Line out] Offside by QTI

[crossref]

The ball going to touch puts red 5 onside
Prior to that he was not acting illegally (not moving forward, not caught by 10m law) so is now free to defend the QTI

 

[Dickie E]

some more examples:

1. Red #15 kicks from 1/2 way and ball rolls over Blue DBL. Blue elect to take drop out. All this time, Red #6 has been standing motionless on Blue 22 and is now in good position to contest at the dropout. Has he illegally benefited from being in an offside position?

2. Red #14 scores in the corner but, just before he grounds the ball, support player (Red #13) runs past him and ends up at Blue DBL. As he runs back he picks up the ball to throw to kicker for a quick conversion attempt. Has he illegally benefited from being in an offside position?

3. Red #10 kicks from 1/2 way and Blue #15, 5 metres from his own goal line, attempts to catch ball but knocks it on. Ref blows for scrum. All this time Red #3 has been standing motionless on Blue 22. He now has an easy 17 metre amble to the scrum while team mates have to run from half way. Has he illegally benefited from being in an offside position?

 

[Dickie E]

and finally:

Red #15 kicks ball into Blue in-goal where it is grounded by Blue #15. Blue #15 tosses ball to Blue #10 on 22 for the drop out. Has he illegally benefited from being in an offside position?

What are the implications if your answer is "no, a player can't be offside if the ball is dead"?

 

[crossref]

it seems to me that
- when the ball goes dead everyone is onside
- BUT any player that was previously offside and offending (ie running forward toward the ball, or failing to retire under 10m Law) is not allowed to benefit from that (as per the WR video)

 

[Arabcheif]

Hey Fellas - we had a presentation from Elite ref Mike Adamson at our Soc Meeting. I asked him about this scenario. He agreed with you guys. My apologies, it just looks wrong to me. But I stand corrected.

 

[tim White]

Happened in text book fashion yesterday Scotland v England. 30m ahead of kicker but immediately at the line of touch .

 

[Pinky]

Happened in text book fashion yesterday Scotland v England. 30m ahead of kicker but immediately at the line of touch .

The player was standing near the LOT. Although a lineout was taken, I think the ref warned the player not to interfere with a QT.

 

[Taff]

I queried this at one of our monthly meetings - admittedly at least 2 years ago, but I don't think there has been a clarification since. :chin:

What I was told is that if we are going to penalise an offside player, then we need to do it before the ball goes to touch. Ie once the ball was in touch all the offside players couldn't be penalised.

Personally if it was up to me, I reckon that all offside players should remain offside and "liable for sanction" until any Zombie ball dies. Ie while there is a possibility that a Zombie ball could come back to life at any moment, then all offside players remain offside and could be penalised if they move forward towards the ball or interfere with play. QTIs are an exciting part of the game and we should do what we can to encourage them.

At one time (again at a monthly meeting) we were told one that there was going to be an announcement regarding this but we heard nothing since.

 

[crossref]

I queried this at one of our monthly meetings - admittedly at least 2 years ago, but I don't think there has been a clarification since. :chin:

What I was told is that if we are going to penalise an offside player, then we need to do it before the ball goes to touch. Ie once the ball was in touch all the offside players couldn't be penalised..

that can't be right as before the ball has gone into touch the offside player hasn't interfered with play in any way.

I really think the correct answer to this is

1 - when the ball is kicked the offside player must stand still (or if caught by the 10m law, retire)
2 - once the ball is in touch the player may then advance to defend the QTI

IF he fails to comply with (1) then he is penalised if he does (2) ..

Preventative calls are in order here, to help them to not offend

 

[Taff]

... What I was told is that IF we are going to penalise an offside player, then we need to do it before the ball goes to touch.

that can't be right as before the ball has gone into touch the offside player hasn't interfered with play in any way.

You may have missed the key word Crossref. :biggrin:

 

[OB..]

You may have missed the key word Crossref. :biggrin:

If the player has committed an offence before the ball goes into touch, then touch does not annul the offence.

Whether or not touch removes all offside lines is a different question. If a player is in front of the kicker but complies with the law, stops, and has not been put onside before the ball is in touch, can he then rush forwards to mark any QTI?

This used to be considered loitering, the status of which is now unclear.

 

[crossref]

This used to be considered loitering, the status of which is now unclear.

Has there been some sort of change ?

 

[OB..]

Has there been some sort of change ?

It used to have a paragraph of its own, but the word 'loitering' does not appear in the current law book.

 

[Treadmore]

It used to have a paragraph of its own, but the word 'loitering' does not appear in the current law book.

I don't think it helps your cause OB, it was a paragraph definition under "Offside and onside in General Play"

I didn't think a ball in touch counted as general play.

Also, loiter was then referenced in later laws for ruck, maul and scrum, but not Touch...

 

[Treadmore]

I should have added the current wording supports your cause better.

Open play is now defined, and the definition of dead is when ref blows whistle or after unsuccessful conversion.
The implication from the definitions is that in touch but no whistle remains open play. And you can be Offside in open play...

 

[Dickie E]

I should have added the current wording supports your cause better.

Open play is now defined, and the definition of dead is when ref blows whistle or after unsuccessful conversion.
The implication from the definitions is that in touch but no whistle remains open play. And you can be Offside in open play...

note law 6.9:

[LAWS]The referee will deem the ball to be dead when:
The ball is in touch or touch in-goal.
[/LAWS]

 

[Treadmore]

note law 6.9:

[LAWS]The referee will deem the ball to be dead when:
The ball is in touch or touch in-goal.
[/LAWS]

But having deemed it does the ref have to blow to effect for everyone else?

 

[crossref]

But having deemed it does the ref have to blow to effect for everyone else?

Yes he does, 6.8.d .
ie When the ball goes into touch the whistle should be blown

 

[OB..]

I should have added the current wording supports your cause better.

Open play is now defined, and the definition of dead is when ref blows whistle or after unsuccessful conversion.
The implication from the definitions is that in touch but no whistle remains open play. And you can be Offside in open play...

The definition of Open Play includes the word "dead". 6.9 a says the ball is dead when it is in touch.

 

[crossref]

This is an area of the Law they should have done a better job of in 2017 .. what are the implications of the ball being "dead" and does the Law book need to distinguish a dead ball from a zombie ball (yes it does)