[Line out] Offside by QTI

[Arabcheif]

I just think it SHOULD be that a player to take part in the attacking or defending of a QTi they should be the following.

Attacker - Level with/behind the thrower (on or nearer to his DBL than the thrower).
Defender, level with/behind the thrower (on or nearer to his DBL than the thrower). So once the ball is thrown in he can't tackle until he's passed the position where the ball was thrown in. TBF, a PK seems a bit harsh for something like that so I wouldn't object to a FK or even a scrum.

To me it just looks wrong that we have all these Laws in place for everything else but nothing for a QTI. I appreciate there's no offsides at QTIs for now.

 

[Treadmore]

The definition of Open Play includes the word "dead". 6.9 a says the ball is dead when it is in touch.

I was trying to help you
Anyway the Definition of Dead, does not refer to Touch. I think Law 6 could be giving the ref leeway to not immediately blow for touch but allow for a QTI possibility first. Or in other words it gives permission to blow and end Open Play.

 

[crossref]

The Law is circular

[LAWS]
6.2 The referee carries a whistle and blows it:
When the ball becomes dead, other than after a failed conversion kick.
[/LAWS]
[LAWS].
Dead: The ball is dead when the referee blows the whistle to stop play or following an unsuccessful conversion.
[/LAWS]

Which is not helpful, but do note that the referee might make the ball dead... Or the ball might itself go dead, and the referee blows to signal that (which is the touch or DBL scenario)

But clearly the whistle must go when the ball is in touch, to signal to the players to stop playing

We do have a gap in the Laws about how to signal that a QTI is no longer available (at the moment of touch it is always available) I do often notice a second blow, when the referee judges that enough of a lineout has formed, so the QTI no longer on. I think that is a good idea, it would be a good convention , blow once for touch , blow again to signal no QTI

 

[Decorily]

The Law is circular

[LAWS]
6.2 The referee carries a whistle and blows it:
When the ball becomes dead, other than after a failed conversion kick.
[/LAWS]
[LAWS].
Dead: The ball is dead when the referee blows the whistle to stop play or following an unsuccessful conversion.
[/LAWS]

Which is not helpful, but do note that the referee might make the ball dead... Or the ball might itself go dead, and the referee blows to signal that (which is the touch or DBL scenario)

But clearly the whistle must go when the ball is in touch, to signal to the players to stop playing

We do have a gap in the Laws about how to signal that a QTI is no longer available (at the moment of touch it is always available) I do often notice a second blow, when the referee judges that enough of a lineout has formed, so the QTI no longer on. I think that is a good idea, it would be a good convention , blow once for touch , blow again to signal no QTI

I personally don't blow the whistle immediately as the ball goes in to touch.
I delay for a few seconds (if the QTI is available ) until the QTI is no longer an option.

 

[crossref]

I personally don't blow the whistle immediately as the ball goes in to touch.
I delay for a few seconds (if the QTI is available ) until the QTI is no longer an option.

Yes, I see that as well sometimes - but that protocol can only work when it's obvious the ball is in touch in the first place. If someone puts a foot on the line (for instance) you blow , as per Law 6 to signal that.


If you don't routinely blow for touch, eventually you will get a scenario where one player, with the ball, knowing the ball is dead, is clattered by an opponent who didn't realise that. That's a dangerous scenario

 

[Decorily]

Yes, I see that as well sometimes - but that protocol can only work when it's obvious the ball is in touch in the first place. If someone puts a foot on the line (for instance) you blow , as per Law 6 to signal that.


If you don't routinely blow for touch, eventually you will get a scenario where one player, with the ball, knowing the ball is dead, is clattered by an opponent who didn't realise that. That's a dangerous scenario

I wasn't clear with my post....I'm referring more to when the ball is kicked to touch etc.

 

[crossref]

I wasn't clear with my post....I'm referring more to when the ball is kicked to touch etc.

I understand - but still you have developed a protocol where when the ball goes into touch you sometimes blow your whistle and sometimes don't - depending on whether you think it's obvious or not. I am saying that's not a good protocol, for the reasons above. Sometimes players just won't be paying attention, lines might be faint and it can create confusion

 

[Decorily]

I understand - but still you have developed a protocol where when the ball goes into touch you sometimes blow your whistle and sometimes don't - depending on whether you think it's obvious or not. I am saying that's not a good protocol, for the reasons above. Sometimes players just won't be paying attention, lines might be faint and it can create confusion

It's not a case, as you infer, of not blowing the whistle.....I said I sometimes delay for a few seconds to allow a QTI when it looks like it may be being considered and when I consider it to be no longer an option I blow to signify that.
It never lasts for more than a couple of seconds and has nothing to do with the ball being in touch as being 'obvious 'as you stated!
It works well for me and after many years of doing so I don't see any reason to change and an assessor has never given me negative feedback on the practice.

 

[Treadmore]

It's not a case, as you infer, of not blowing the whistle.....I said I sometimes delay for a few seconds to allow a QTI when it looks like it may be being considered and when I consider it to be no longer an option I blow to signify that.
It never lasts for more than a couple of seconds and has nothing to do with the ball being in touch as being 'obvious 'as you stated!
It works well for me and after many years of doing so I don't see any reason to change and an assessor has never given me negative feedback on the practice.

I like your way, and it allows you to penalise an infringing offside interfering with the QTI (because you've not ended open play with your whistle)

 

[crossref]

I like your way, and it allows you to penalise an infringing offside interfering with the QTI (because you've not ended open play with your whistle)

Hence the problem .. the ball is dead , but the whistle not blown, a player might be unaware that the ball is dead and, thinking we are in open play, carry on playing, tackling the unsuspecting player holding the ball. A potentially dangerous situation.
This is why we should blow our whistle when the ball goes dead (6.2)

 

[didds]

I have grreat sympathies for you all on this subject.

Meanwhile players, coaches etc still have to play to some sort of vague plan.

So dont be surprised when player X stands still when in fornt of his own kicker, ball goes into touch, and then rushes to the LOT. Because its obvious nobody has a definitive answer (other than in each individual's own head granted). And Im afraid that for once "but last week's ref" may be a very understandable response (unless it was you of course last week! LOL)


didds

 

[crossref]

In practice I don't see much of this, tbh, and I can manage it "7 Hold"

What causes more problems is players (Inc recently the TJ) chasing after a loose ball to handle it to prevent a QTI. And also players coming inside the 5m line to defend a QTI