Offside in-goal

[Donaldo01]

Had an interesting discussion on the sideline on Sat with an school ref and a coach.

Blue outhalf standing just inside his own dead ball line kicks long to red half.

Blue forward standing in pillar position just inside own goal line starts moving forward before being put onside.

Peep - Penalty to Red on 5m line.

I said "Good decision".

Coach said .... "You can't be offside in your own in-goal"

I said "Rubbish!"

Who's right? I can't find definitive answer in the Law book.

 

[Casey Bee]

Player can be offside there, just like anywhere else on pitch...

 

[OB..]

There are no set phases in in-goal, so their offside lines cannot arise - which is how the misunderstanding has arisen. However you can be offside under Law 11.

 

[Dixie]

Spot on Donaldo01 - you can be offside in open play anywhere, including in-goal; however, as OB points out there are no offside lines at rucks, mauls and scrums, as these can't take place in-goal.

As a matter of interest, in what capacity were you watching this school game - parent, teacher, referee advisor or coach?

 

[Dickie E]

Had an interesting discussion on the sideline on Sat with an school ref and a coach.

Blue outhalf standing just inside his own dead ball line kicks long to red half.

Blue forward standing in pillar position just inside own goal line starts moving forward before being put onside.

Peep - Penalty to Red on 5m line.

I said "Good decision".

Coach said .... "You can't be offside in your own in-goal"

I said "Rubbish!"

Who's right? I can't find definitive answer in the Law book.

The ref wasn't Mr. Jobsworth, was it? Please describe material impact of the Blue forward's "transgression".

 

[ex-lucy]

Dickie - pls see POB's directives

 

[Dickie E]

Dickie - pls see POB's directives

Done that. Question still remains.

 

[chopper15]

Blue outhalf standing just inside his own dead ball line kicks long to red half.

Blue forward standing in pillar position just inside own goal line starts moving forward before being put onside.

Peep - Penalty to Red on 5m line.

I said "Good decision".

I can't find definitive answer in the Law book.

In your scenario, Donald, you state; Blue outhalf standing just inside his own dead ball line kicks long to red half. and you can't find a definitive answer in the LoG.


11.4 OFFSIDE UNDER THE 10-METRE LAW

(a) When a team-mate of an offside player has kicked ahead, the offside player is considered to be taking part in the game if the player is in front of an imaginary line across the field which is 10 metres from the opponent waiting to play the ball, or from where the ball lands or may
land.

 

[Taff]

Chopper I don't think he meant offside under the 10m Law, but offside in general play.

 

[kielikili]

Thanks Donaldo01, you saved me posting the same question. Had the same scenario in a game yesterday. Also gave penalty. As a matter of interest, would there be an option for a 5m scrum too?
Cheers,
Kili

 

[Dickie E]

Thanks Donaldo01, you saved me posting the same question. Had the same scenario in a game yesterday. Also gave penalty. As a matter of interest, would there be an option for a 5m scrum too?
Cheers,
Kili

You blokes are smoking some some bad weed

 

[Dixie]

Yes, there would be a 5m scrum option - though in practice that option already exists as the attacking team can elect to take their 5m PK as a 5m scrum. it may make a difference as to lateral location - e.g. kicker in centre of the pitch laterally, winger moving forward on the touchline. Many would prefer a central scrum to one far out.

Dickie, to your point: let's assume that the kicker is the hindmost man and can't be bothered (or isn't able) to chase his kick. All his team-mates are offside, adn thus out of the game. In law, they must stand still until a) the red team has caught the ball, and b) has either run 5m or passed. Given that everyone on the Blue side is on or behind the 5m line, then Red, with a flying start at the half-way line, should be travelling at pace and 45m away from the nearest opponent.

Now, if we allow offside blue players to move forward while the ball is in the air, they might reasonably be expected to make it to the 22 when the catch is made, and perhaps a further 6-7m by the time the catcher has run 5m or passed. Thus, when Blue crosses the halfway line, the nearest defender is only 22m away, instead of 45m. Attacking options and prospects of territory have been severely limited - breakdown will be 28m behind where it ought to be. PK, as per iRB directives. Why would you not? Have the Aussies so quickly fallen out of love with the fast open game they've been asking the rest of the world to play?

 

[PaulDG]

Attacking options and prospects of territory have been severely limited - breakdown will be 28m behind where it ought to be. PK, as per iRB directives. Why would you not? Have the Aussies so quickly fallen out of love with the fast open game they've been asking the rest of the world to play?

Seems to me this is all about the "all shapes and sizes" and fitness things.

At elite levels we have 19-stone props who can cover 100m in 12-13 seconds.

Allowing those guys any sort of offside advantage clearly affects open play.

At 5th team levels we have 23 stone props who can barely walk from one end of the pitch to the other and having them walk forwards from their offside position is effectively speeding the game up - as when the catcher fumbles the catch and knocks it on, the prop is that little bit closer to where the resulting scrum will be

 

[OB..]

If you are going to excuse the player on the grounds of materiality, then you should at least talk to him. Otherwise he will get rather miffed if next time you penalise him for doing the same thing because it was material, and that undermines your credibility.

 

[Donaldo01]

As a matter of interest, in what capacity were you watching this school game - parent, teacher, referee advisor or coach?

I was a parent.

The ref wasn't Mr. Jobsworth, was it? Please describe material impact of the Blue forward's "transgression".

Well, I'm not sure how material it was ..... but .... it was a pre-competition friendly and the ref penalised his own school so it was material in the sense of educating the team.

It also gave the offending player a 10-15m headstart on the chase. POB, says that "even 2m of space can make a big difference.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Correct to penalise but I would have expected a preventative call to stop the prop advancing, and if he still kept going forward "peep". The ball has gone long to red half so no rush on the decision needed.

 

[Iron_Lung]

Done that. Question still remains.

While I understand the comment relating to material effect, wasn't the IRB directive at the start of the most recent SH season very clear on the requirement to penalise players in front of the kicker who "drift" forward without first being run onside? The original comment in this thread doesn't mention any previous management that the ref in question may have used to call the player back or give him the opportunity to comply.

If the in goal was quite deep, then the head start that the pillar forward could get would be significant and is therefore potentially deserving of a penalty...

Just read some more, you can add my comments to other peoples....

 

[chopper15]

Chopper I don't think he meant offside under the 10m Law, but offside in general play.

But, Taff, he was far enough away to be temporarily out of the game and wasn't interfering with play, so why not use this law it's appropriate to the scenario given. What grounds did the ref. have to blow up?

 

[Taff]

But, Taff, he was far enough away to be temporarily out of the game and wasn't interfering with play, so why not use this law it's appropriate to the scenario given. What grounds did the ref. have to blow up?

I've queried it myself, and was told the latest IRB directive to refs makes it clear. If he's offside and moving forward, its a PK.

 

[OB..]

It is also a matter of inculcating good habits.