Offside player moving forward

ChrisR

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Red 15, in his own ingoal, kicks the ball up field. Red 14, 2m in front of the goal line, advances before being put onside and catches the ball 20m up field.

Where should the Blue PK mark be? Where Red 14 caught the ball or where he first advanced (5m from red goal). Scrum option would be on 5m.
 

Christy


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A direct answer for a clear cut penalty .
The penalty would be awarded 5 meters from red try line , in line with where red 14 was off side .
 

didds

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wouldn't there be a scrum option from where the FBG had kicked it also?

Or in this case a 5m scrum in line with the FB's kicking position.

Admittedly its likely the PK would be taken anyway!


didds
 

ChrisR

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Yes, scrum option (last sentence in OP) offered and taken because PK was marked after offside player had caught the ball and run another 10m. The spot of the PK seemed very wrong to me.
 

didds

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sorry chris - missed that line!

didds
 

beckett50


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A question for me is, did you call for Red#14 to stop? You state that he was 2m in front of the Goal line but how far had he run before being put on-side?

In Law your call was correct, but could it have been avoided?
 

Pinky


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sorry chris - missed that line!

didds

Didds you make a good point about where the restart is - there would be a PK on the 5 in line with where the 14 was offside or a scrum option on the 5 in line with where the FB had kicked. Obviously either could be taken as a scrum.
 

ChrisR

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A question for me is, did you call for Red#14 to stop? You state that he was 2m in front of the Goal line but how far had he run before being put on-side?

In Law your call was correct, but could it have been avoided?

I was a casual observer with no skin in the game but I didn't hear any call for him to 'stay' and he never was put onside.
 

Dickie E


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Yes, scrum option (last sentence in OP) offered and taken because PK was marked after offside player had caught the ball and run another 10m. The spot of the PK seemed very wrong to me.

I suspect the ref has confused the offside sanction with the obstruction sanction:

[LAWS]25. A player must not intentionally charge or obstruct an opponent who has just kicked the ball.

Sanction: Penalty. The non-offending team chooses to take the penalty either:a. At the place of the infringement; or
b. Where the ball lands or is next played but not nearer than 15 metres from the touchline; [/LAWS]
 

Phil E


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Red 15, in his own ingoal, kicks the ball up field. Red 14, 2m in front of the goal line, advances before being put onside and catches the ball 20m up field.

Where should the Blue PK mark be? Where Red 14 caught the ball or where he first advanced (5m from red goal). Scrum option would be on 5m.

He is offside at the point he starts to move forward and the place for the PK is where he became offside (so where he started to move forward). As this place was 2m from the goal line the PK is on the 5m line

There is of course the option of a scrum where the ball was last played (where it was kicked), but as this is in goal it would be moved forward to the 5m line.

So little point in giving options, it's just a PK on the 5m line, which they can choose to take as a scrum if they wish.
 

ChrisR

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No, I think he was applying the sanctions for offside (not obstruction) and gave the correct option for a scrum at 5m in front of where the player kicked the ball from in-goal.

However, my thoughts were that the PK mark should have been where the offside player started in front of the kicker, not from where he interfered with play.

[LAWS]4. An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
a. Interferes with play; or
b. Moves forwards towards the ball; or


Sanction: The non-offending team can choose either:
i. Penalty at the place of infringement; or
ii. Scrum where the offending team last played the ball.
[/LAWS]

I was replying to Taff having not yet seen Phil's post
 
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Taff


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No, I think he was applying the sanctions for offside (not obstruction) and gave the correct option for a scrum at 5m in front of where the player kicked the ball from in-goal. However, my thoughts were that the PK mark should have been where the offside player started in front of the kicker, not from where he interfered with play.
My guess is the Ref thought he was applying the sanctions for offside, but just ballsed up the mark for the PK option. He got the mark for the scrum option right though.

The options for late charging the kicker is PK here or PK there - not PK or scrum, so I'm sure he was thinking of offside in open play, but being in-goal may have thrown him.
 
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Zebra1922


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A question for me is, did you call for Red#14 to stop? You state that he was 2m in front of the Goal line but how far had he run before being put on-side?

In Law your call was correct, but could it have been avoided?

Very frustrating when you get a players eye, call him to stop (twice or more!) and they still carry on. Then look baffled when you penalise them.
 

ChrisR

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What do you do when you call for an offside player who is moving forward to stop but they just slow down and then an onside player passes them so they are now onside. Just a word at the next break or PK anyway?
 

chbg


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What do you do when you call for an offside player who is moving forward to stop but they just slow down and then an onside player passes them so they are now onside. Just a word at the next break or PK anyway?

Is it material to the next play? If yes then penalise. If not at all, then chat if you are still feeling charitable.
 

Dickie E


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Is it material to the next play? If yes then penalise. If not at all, then chat if you are still feeling charitable.

I would err on the side of being tough. In this context, material includes closing down or influencing options even if 20 metres away.
 

Zebra1922


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What do you do when you call for an offside player who is moving forward to stop but they just slow down and then an onside player passes them so they are now onside. Just a word at the next break or PK anyway?


Rightly or or wrongly I tend to let it go on the grounds of materiality. I know they are now further ahead than they would have been had the applied with the law (and referee instruction) but most of the time it’s forwards who continue that slow trundle once they’ve been passed by a speedy back so don’t influence the first phase of play (although I get the argument they now have an advantage for phase 2 etc). I try not to whistle when I can avoid it.
 

Pinky


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What do you do when you call for an offside player who is moving forward to stop but they just slow down and then an onside player passes them so they are now onside. Just a word at the next break or PK anyway?

I think too many of us would let that go. I would recommend penalising early in the game and then it should not be a problem later on. If a player does not do what I ask, I am thinking "penalty"
 
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