Own team

[Stuartg]

Part of my role is as an appointments manager. What do yoy think about the pros and cons ofappointing a ref to cover a match involving his own college side? I think that it can be very good for thrbdevelopment of a young upcoming ref. Over to you.

 

[crossref]

I see only downside...

 

[matty1194]

In the past I have both refereed my own works team (nearest other ref was over 200 miles away that week) and my club team, neither in full league fixtures however which may have a bearing on the game you are appointing the fella too.

Aslong as the both teams are informed that you have a development referee with an affliation with the home team who will be refereeing the game (coach/assesor along?), I see no real problem.

IF THE REF REF'S WHATS IN FRONT OF HIM THEN HE SHOULD BE FINE.

 

[Dickie E]

As long as the both teams are informed that you have a development referee with an affliation with the home team who will be refereeing the game (coach/assesor along?), I see no real problem.

I see problems from a different angle. If he does something to upset his home club (red card for instance) he may face being a pariah. But that's his call.

 

[Wedgie]

I think it depends on the individuals concerned.

If the ref is good, has good rapport with the teams there is less chance of any issues. If he makes a few mistakes (and who doesn't?), it depends on how the teams treat the ref and how (s)he reacts. Both on the pitch and afterwards. How resilient an individual are they?
Friendly or competitive match?
1st XV or IVths?

Having been in this situation a number of times (and I am still relatively new to this lark), I really enjoy reffing the 2nd/Vets team of my club (it's a small club) as I played for them for 10 years, know many of the players and many of the players of opposing local teams at that level and (I think) we have respect for each other on and off the pitch. Reffing the rather more competitive 1sts is a different matter....

My gut feeling is that is safer not to, but should be balanced against the individual refs desire for a match vs. other opportunities, the seriousness with which the players take the game and what you think the refs personal characteristics are like....

 

[Account Deleted]

I'd not put them under the pressure. Young refs can be influenced by a vocal crowd. The visiting side may feel he is being swayed, whether he is or not, and they in turn may become disgruntled and difficult for him. I'd avoid it if at all possible. Why give them the added pressure?

 

[OB..]

This happens regularly when there are not enough society referees to cover all local games. A club ref takes over. AFAIK clubs do not object.

40 years ago our club referee had the reputation of being heavily biased towards the opposition in order to prove his lack of bias.

 

[Rushforth]

I think it depends on the individuals concerned.

If the ref is good, has good rapport with the teams there is less chance of any issues. If he makes a few mistakes (and who doesn't?), it depends on how the teams treat the ref and how (s)he reacts. Both on the pitch and afterwards. How resilient an individual are they?
Friendly or competitive match?
1st XV or IVths?

Having been in this situation a number of times (and I am still relatively new to this lark), I really enjoy reffing the 2nd/Vets team of my club (it's a small club) as I played for them for 10 years, know many of the players and many of the players of opposing local teams at that level and (I think) we have respect for each other on and off the pitch. Reffing the rather more competitive 1sts is a different matter....

My gut feeling is that is safer not to, but should be balanced against the individual refs desire for a match vs. other opportunities, the seriousness with which the players take the game and what you think the refs personal characteristics are like....

Interesting that you use the word "safer", because for a lot of referees their own club is a safety zone (or buffer).

The main Con, in my opinion, is not the potential perception of a "home" referee as biased - he will generally attempt to be strict on his "own team", but rather that at the grass roots level the home team will become familiar with the weaknesses of the referee.

That doesn't seem to be the case here. A major Pro is that for inexperienced referees, a few home games early on - not too early mind! - can at least ensure that one of the sides respects the fact that he (or she) is newish, and as mentioned above, provide a feeling of security.

Unfortunately criticising referees is part of Association Football culture, and even more unfortunately the Netherlands has multiple orders of magnitude more Soccer/Footie people around for our sport to cope with. I won't go deeper into that here, but as an "appointments manager" myself, it is very frustrating, and as Wedgie says, it depends on individuals.

 

[SimonSmith]

Avoid, especially for younger referees. The implied pressure could be a real mental block.

I'd consider myself a strong minded referee. Doing my home club in West of Scotland was not enjoyable, and tough mentally. I struggle to see the upside

 

[Drift]

Took me 3 years to be comfortable enough to referee my own club's games. I was ARing pretty much straight away and that didn't cause any issues.

Now I have done numerous games with my old club and everyone has the knowledge that when we step onto the pitch I am no longer their mate for 2 hours. Works pretty well, hell one of the players from my old club was my best man and I've never had an issue with him as a player. He might not agree with stuff but we chat about it after the game.

 

[thepercy]

This happens regularly when there are not enough society referees to cover all local games. A club ref takes over. AFAIK clubs do not object.

40 years ago our club referee had the reputation of being heavily biased towards the opposition in order to prove his lack of bias.

I know a guy like that.

 

[thepercy]

Took me 3 years to be comfortable enough to referee my own club's games. I was ARing pretty much straight away and that didn't cause any issues.

Now I have done numerous games with my old club and everyone has the knowledge that when we step onto the pitch I am no longer their mate for 2 hours. Works pretty well, hell one of the players from my old club was my best man and I've never had an issue with him as a player. He might not agree with stuff but we chat about it after the game.

Do you worry that you best man will become familiar with your weaknesses as Rushforth claims may happen? Does he gain an advantage by discussions in the bar about where he can exploit you?:biggrin:

 

[Drift]

Do you worry that you best man will become familiar with your weaknesses as Rushforth claims may happen? Does he gain an advantage by discussions in the bar about where he can exploit you?:biggrin:

He probably does, although through me he has come to know a few of the referees around the place so his rapport with officials is generally good. If he can exploit my weakness from his position then fair play to him. But I don't think he can.

 

[crossref]

When needs must it's possible for someone to ref their own club without mishap, but where there is a choice why would you choose that? There is downside and no upside

Neutral referees simply work better

 

[Account Deleted]

This happens regularly when there are not enough society referees to cover all local games. A club ref takes over. AFAIK clubs do not object.

40 years ago our club referee had the reputation of being heavily biased towards the opposition in order to prove his lack of bias.

But not ideal for a newbie surely. Home side 4 pts down and "last play". Maul drives into the away in-goal area. What does he "see" with his club supporters (possibly his family too) celebrating the "try"? Unfair on a youngster. Yes a bit further down his career he may well be better able to handle it.

A Bad experience in such an encounter could cut short a ref's career. Why risk it unless you need to?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Club referees are commonly used for youth and some lower team matches for many years - it has downsides but in general works.
In the Cambridge Colleges set up surely it is easy to do swaps or appointments to other colleges to avoid reffing his own College.

 

[Account Deleted]

Club referees are commonly used for youth and some lower team matches for many years - it has downsides but in general works.
In the Cambridge Colleges set up surely it is easy to do swaps or appointments to other colleges to avoid reffing his own College.

From the OP is this not the critical bit "...I think that it can be very good for the development of a young upcoming ref. Is it the right place for a newbie?

Also:

40 years ago our club referee had the reputation of being heavily biased towards the opposition in order to prove his lack of bias.

So he is being influenced / biased for one side and against the other. It does not matter who we are being biased against. You are admitting that he is being biased.

If there is no other choice and the game will be called off unless a ref is appointed who has a connection with one of the teams, I can understand the attraction "need" to go down this route. I can't, however, see it as a development tool for a young up and coming referee. Such a ref is under enough pressure without the possibility of accusations (possibly hostile) that he is a cheat.

As simon says surely in the case of College rugby and indeed in many other cases swapping two club refs over could avoid this situation occurring.

 

[Dixie]

I see only downside...

says the man who, for several years, cut his teeth reffing only his own club's side! Didn't do you much harm, it seems to me!

I'd not put them under the pressure. Young refs can be influenced by a vocal crowd. The visiting side may feel he is being swayed, whether he is or not, and they in turn may become disgruntled and difficult for him. I'd avoid it if at all possible. Why give them the added pressure?

Perhaps so, yes. I think a lot depends on what the OP calls a "college". As he's in and around Cambridge, perhaps he's envisaging Pembroke vs Magdalene, or St Johns vs Cambridge Medics rather than Cambridge Uni vs Bristol. In such circumstances, I'd be less concerned - those games are unlikely to attract a large vocal crowd.

When needs must it's possible for someone to ref their own club without mishap, but where there is a choice why would you choose that? There is downside and no upside

Neutral referees simply work better

Agreed. Where possible, if you have a ref from St John's, get him to do the Magdalene game, while the Pembroke ref does the St John's game. ST makes this point well:

In the Cambridge Colleges set up surely it is easy to do swaps or appointments to other colleges to avoid reffing his own College.

 

[Jacko]

Whilst at Durham, I reffed various Durham Uni teams in BUSA and local leagues (appointed by Society) - these were absolutely no problem as I knew very few of the players. It's a big place!

Also did my college side a couple of times (appointed by student-run uni sub-society) - this was a little odd as I knew all of them very well. Just clarified beforehand that for 80 minutes I was "ref" rather than "Jacko" and got on with it. No issues from either side.

 

[OB..]

As a club ref many years ago, I pulled a calf muscle half way through a game. The away captain agreed to take over. Afterwards one of his players came up to me in the bar and said he wished I could have stayed on because his captain was much harsher on his team than I was. I decided not to mention that he also made a number of law errors of the "let him up" variety!

Do we agree that refereeing your own club can work with no problems, but is a risk and therefore in general best avoided?